Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Assuming that I am the G, I can see signs of increasing right wing influences in this country, and indeed the USA, but notice more in the former eastern european countries: well I say former eastern european countries, but they are still there!! Former eastern bloc, eg Hungary. Poland.

Is this as dangerous as Germany in the 20's and 30's? Not yet, it seems more a pushback against uncontrolled immigration as opposed to ostracizing existing citizens but it is a trend that could escalate. I don't think Europe is yet vulnerable to rampant Hungarian forces marching into Paris etc, but the internal politics gives cause for a little concern.

In UK I don't see right wing activism as being anything like as influential as Moseley was but there is a growing anti immigrant /islamaphobic tendency even among otherwise moderate individuals that I know.

I'm not sure it's on a par with Germany though. Nazism developed there in an atmosphere of post WW1 reparations and a global economic crash and thus was driven by poverty and anger against the haves.

I agree that that ‘tendency’ is gaining traction, it seems from what I see to be moving down the age demographic and up the class/prosperity demographic, just from personal observation. Noticeable is the reintroduction of the ‘P’ word perjoratively into social chatter

[Trickytreesreds]

I agree that that ‘tendency’ is gaining traction, it seems from what I see to be moving down the age demographic and up the class/prosperity demographic, just from personal observation. Noticeable is the reintroduction of the ‘P’ word perjoratively into social chatter

The crux of it for me. Is the financial and political elites, have pushed the continent down an immigration alley that has lost all control. They never asked to do this and refuse to listen to ever growing objections by native populations. The Eastern bloc countries have said, they will preserve their cultures at all costs and reject any part of it. Folks forget, they were stipped of their culture by the CCCP and politically hammered. They haven't forgotten.

Multicultualism only works, if amy immigrants want and try to adapt to places they settle. Not all of them are.
GP mentions the eastern bloc, as comparisons of Nazi Germany, yet in Amsterdam, you saw that very thing the other night. Gangs out on Jew hunts and stopping people demanding to see their "papers".
If this is the norm, what happens when these populations grow?

[MadAmster]

The crux of it for me. Is the financial and political elites, have pushed the continent down an immigration alley that has lost all control. They never asked to do this and refuse to listen to ever growing objections by native populations. The Eastern bloc countries have said, they will preserve their cultures at all costs and reject any part of it. Folks forget, they were stipped of their culture by the CCCP and politically hammered. They haven't forgotten.

Multicultualism only works, if amy immigrants want and try to adapt to places they settle. Not all of them are.
GP mentions the eastern bloc, as comparisons of Nazi Germany, yet in Amsterdam, you saw that very thing the other night. Gangs out on Jew hunts and stopping people demanding to see their "papers".
If this is the norm, what happens when these populations grow?

Conscription in Israel will mean that many of the Macabbi fans will have been, or still are, IDF or reservists. They pulled Palestinian flags off houses and burned them, they attacked a Muslim taxi driver and wrecked his car, they were chanting about Gaza's destruction. Their actions were met by retaliation. That led to antisemitism being described by the Mayor of Amsterdam, the Prime Minister, Netanyahu and others. I don't condone what happened nor do I condone what was the catalyst to it.

There's an old adage of "if you play with fire, expect to get burned".

[Andy_Faber]

Conscription in Israel will mean that many of the Macabbi fans will have been, or still are, IDF or reservists. They pulled Palestinian flags off houses and burned them, they attacked a Muslim taxi driver and wrecked his car, they were chanting about Gaza's destruction. Their actions were met by retaliation. That led to antisemitism being described by the Mayor of Amsterdam, the Prime Minister, Netanyahu and others. I don't condone what happened nor do I condone what was the catalyst to it.

There's an old adage of "if you play with fire, expect to get burned".

Any proof about the reservist thing? The only reference I can find is on known conspiracy theory websites like Quora

[ramAnag]

Any proof about the reservist thing? The only reference I can find is on known conspiracy theory websites like Quora

Sometimes we perhaps would do well to rely on the first hand accounts of level headed Amsterdam residents such as MA.

[MadAmster]

Any proof about the reservist thing? The only reference I can find is on known conspiracy theory websites like Quora

No proof Andy, however, as military service is compulsory and after your term you automatically become a reservist, unless you're wounded/injured (or, until recently one of the orthodox Jewish community who were exempt from national service), proof shouldn't really be necessary as almost all of the men among the 3200 or so Macabbi fans will have, by Law, done service and now be in the reserves. I know Israeli women are in the forces too but I don't know if they are all subject to conscription like the men are.

[Andy_Faber]

No proof Andy, however, as military service is compulsory and after your term you automatically become a reservist, unless you're wounded/injured (or, until recently one of the orthodox Jewish community who were exempt from national service), proof shouldn't really be necessary as almost all of the men among the 3200 or so Macabbi fans will have, by Law, done service and now be in the reserves. I know Israeli women are in the forces too but I don't know if they are all subject to conscription like the men are.

So its a non-issue then, a bit like saying all the fans had a head. Trouble makers maybe, and we've all been there in one way or another in our lives, but your post intimates a battle-hardened regiment

[MadAmster]

So its a non-issue then, a bit like saying all the fans had a head. Trouble makers maybe, and we've all been there in one way or another in our lives, but your post intimates a battle-hardened regiment

One man's non-issue is another man's fact. Conscript then reservist is the lot of Israeli men. Fact.

[Trickytreesreds]

One man's non-issue is another man's fact. Conscript then reservist is the lot of Israeli men. Fact.

So what you are saying then, is that the hatred, racism, tit for tat of the middle east is now on the streets of Europe and part of day to day life? If so, why are they here?

And stopping white people on the streets demanding to see ID papers, sounds very gestapo/ waffen SS to me.

[MadAmster]

So what you are saying then, is that the hatred, racism, tit for tat of the middle east is now on the streets of Europe and part of day to day life? If so, why are they here?

And stopping white people on the streets demanding to see ID papers, sounds very gestapo/ waffen SS to me.

Why are they here? Quite feasibly some were born here. Parents or grandparents came here to work years ago.

[Trickytreesreds]

Why are they here? Quite feasibly some were born here. Parents or grandparents came here to work years ago.

That in itself is even worse. No integration and adoption of western values and rule of law.
Lets just recreate the bile of where we came from here.
If thats the way they want to live, letting their religion dictate their prejudices, then they should all leave to somewhere they can carry it out as a norm.

[ramAnag]

Surely the most salient points of MA’s original comment are his description of the behaviour of these fans…tearing down and burning Palestinian flags, attacking a Muslim taxi driver and indulging in anti Gaza chants. Without defending any of the violence and accepting that I’m sure some on both sides were all too happy to ‘retaliate’, there does, assuming MA’s description to be accurate, appear to be an element of ‘reap what you sow’.

There’s also something ironic about Tricky talking about ‘bile’ and criticising the bringing hatred to the streets of Europe given that he is the greatest peddler of hatred, disharmony and anti Muslim/immigrant bile on this forum.

[Andy_Faber]

Surely the most salient points of MA’s original comment are his description of the behaviour of these fans…tearing down and burning Palestinian flags, attacking a Muslim taxi driver and indulging in anti Gaza chants. Without defending any of the violence and accepting that I’m sure some on both sides were all too happy to ‘retaliate’, there does, assuming MA’s description to be accurate, appear to be an element of ‘reap what you sow’.

There’s also something ironic about Tricky talking about ‘bile’ and criticising the bringing hatred to the streets of Europe given that he is the greatest peddler of hatred, disharmony and anti Muslim/immigrant bile on this forum.

On this occasion I disagree because IMO it showed bias. MA called me out on a similar inaccuracy last week and I took it in good part, trust MA does the same

[ramAnag]

On this occasion I disagree because IMO it showed bias. MA called me out on a similar inaccuracy last week and I took it in good part, trust MA does the same

I’m sure he will, but I’m not sure how his account ‘showed bias’. He appears to me to be a very reasonable and truthful man of integrity who lives in and is familiar with Amsterdam. I therefore suspect he is likely to know more about what actually happened there than the rest of us.

[Trickytreesreds]

Surely the most salient points of MA’s original comment are his description of the behaviour of these fans…tearing down and burning Palestinian flags, attacking a Muslim taxi driver and indulging in anti Gaza chants. Without defending any of the violence and accepting that I’m sure some on both sides were all too happy to ‘retaliate’, there does, assuming MA’s description to be accurate, appear to be an element of ‘reap what you sow’.

There’s also something ironic about Tricky talking about ‘bile’ and criticising the bringing hatred to the streets of Europe given that he is the greatest peddler of hatred, disharmony and anti Muslim/immigrant bile on this forum.

Went straight over your head didn't it.
Israeli fans came over here and caused football trouble. Muslim immigrants, decide to take the law into their own hands and instead of leaving it to the police, recreate their own version of Nazi Germany.
You defend it all you want
Its serious