Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

I’m sure he will, but I’m not sure how his account ‘showed bias’.

This happens a lot, and I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand or if its a tactic

[ramAnag]

This happens a lot, and I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand or if its a tactic

Sorry, what ‘happens a lot’. I’m just discussing something with you…why do I need a ‘tactic’?

[MadAmster]

The latest "news". The woman freelancer who filmed the first incident on the Thursday (Flags and taxi incidents were Wednesday) put the video up on her twitter, saying that the perpetrators were the Macabbi fans. That was picked up by an American who posted the video up citing the Macabbi fans as the victims. She contacted him and asked for a rectification that never arrived. A lot of news services took the American's version and posted that as the facts. She got in touch with several news services asking them to "get it right". Only one did. Source: an interview with the woman herself on an RTL4 talk show.

The video actually showed it was Macabbi fans doing the attacking. Around the same time, a young YouTuber took and posted video. It showed Macabbi fans dismantling pallets and using the wood as weapons chasing locals.

None of this excuses the reaction from what are now being described as "people with a migration background, mainly Moroccan".

Two wrongs don't make a right or even a one sided right. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Violence begat violence. Both need condemning in the strongest possible terms.

[ramAnag]

Went straight over your head didn't it.
Israeli fans came over here and caused football trouble. Muslim immigrants, decide to take the law into their own hands and instead of leaving it to the police, recreate their own version of Nazi Germany.
You defend it all you want
Its serious

Which bit of me saying…‘without defending any of the violence’…didn’t you understand?

Thought you usually castigated Swale for making ‘Nazi’ comparisons.

Still puzzled by Andy’s talk of ‘tactics’ and ‘bias’.

[Andy_Faber]

The latest "news". The woman freelancer who filmed the first incident on the Thursday (Flags and taxi incidents were Wednesday) put the video up on her twitter, saying that the perpetrators were the Macabbi fans. That was picked up by an American who posted the video up citing the Macabbi fans as the victims. She contacted him and asked for a rectification that never arrived. A lot of news services took the American's version and posted that as the facts. She got in touch with several news services asking them to "get it right". Only one did. Source: an interview with the woman herself on an RTL4 talk show.

The video actually showed it was Macabbi fans doing the attacking. Around the same time, a young YouTuber took and posted video. It showed Macabbi fans dismantling pallets and using the wood as weapons chasing locals.

None of this excuses the reaction from what are now being described as "people with a migration background, mainly Moroccan".

Two wrongs don't make a right or even a one sided right. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Violence begat violence. Both need condemning in the strongest possible terms.

No argument there. IMO two inflexible, intolerant belief systems in conflict on the neutral ground of a flexible, tolerant one

[Ramshank72]

The latest "news". The woman freelancer who filmed the first incident on the Thursday (Flags and taxi incidents were Wednesday) put the video up on her twitter, saying that the perpetrators were the Macabbi fans. That was picked up by an American who posted the video up citing the Macabbi fans as the victims. She contacted him and asked for a rectification that never arrived. A lot of news services took the American's version and posted that as the facts. She got in touch with several news services asking them to "get it right". Only one did. Source: an interview with the woman herself on an RTL4 talk show.

The video actually showed it was Macabbi fans doing the attacking. Around the same time, a young YouTuber took and posted video. It showed Macabbi fans dismantling pallets and using the wood as weapons chasing locals.

None of this excuses the reaction from what are now being described as "people with a migration background, mainly Moroccan".

Two wrongs don't make a right or even a one sided right. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Violence begat violence. Both need condemning in the strongest possible terms.

Sadly, "condemning" is just lip service to local media, and makes no material difference to perpetuators or victims. I always think when politicians are asked to condemn incidents, they are having their intelligence insulted. If it were me, I'd be responding* with, "Yes, of course I think that they shouldn't commit that crime, you stupid ****ing idiot."





*My political career may not be calling any time soon!

[Andy_Faber]

Still puzzled by Andy’s talk of ‘tactics’ and ‘bias’.

Two different issues, the latter leading onto the former. I don't want this to turn into the usual ping pong so this is my only clarification:

Bias: In his original mesage, MA mentions 'many of the Macabbi fans will have been, or still are, IDF or reservists'. But its an unnecessary description, as MA later admits (almost) all Israelis have to be IDF or reservists, and it colours his report by insinuating that there was some pseudo-military planning involved. Such unnecessary elaboration suggets bias to me, and leads me to doubt the rest of the report. That doesn't mean I have stopped believing anything MA says, far from it, it just sows a seed of doubt in that instance.

Tactic: you tend to respond to a lot of well-thought through well written statements and points of view (lets exclude my ramblings, it relates to thers too) with 'I'm puzzled' or similar phrase, that's just a cheap way of avoiding addressing the original statement. Just IMO

You're right about the Nazi thing by the way, its not just Swale and its a really cheap shot, again just IMO

[Andy_Faber]

Sadly, "condemning" is just lip service to local media, and makes no material difference to perpetuators or victims. I always think when politicians are asked to condemn incidents, they are having their intelligence insulted. If it were me, I'd be responding* with, "Yes, of course I think that they shouldn't commit that crime, you stupid ****ing idiot."





*My political career may not be calling any time soon!

It'd be great TV though

[ramAnag]

Two different issues, the latter leading onto the former. I don't want this to turn into the usual ping pong so this is my only clarification:

Bias: In his original mesage, MA mentions 'many of the Macabbi fans will have been, or still are, IDF or reservists'. But its an unnecessary description, as MA later admits (almost) all Israelis have to be IDF or reservists, and it colours his report by insinuating that there was some pseudo-military planning involved. Such unnecessary elaboration suggets bias to me, and leads me to doubt the rest of the report. That doesn't mean I have stopped believing anything MA says, far from it, it just sows a seed of doubt in that instance.

Tactic: you tend to respond to a lot of well-thought through well written statements and points of view (lets exclude my ramblings, it relates to thers too) with 'I'm puzzled' or similar phrase, that's just a cheap way of avoiding addressing the original statement. Just IMO

You're right about the Nazi thing by the way, its not just Swale and its a really cheap shot, again just IMO

Hmmm…we’ll have to differ on your interpretation of ‘bias’. A different ‘slant’ I agree but a ‘slant’ based on local knowledge which is often useful imo.

On ‘tactic’ you’re just wrong. I didn’t mention being ‘puzzled’ until after your use of the word ‘tactic’. I said I’m ‘not sure’ how MA’s original statement displayed bias - as I hope I’ve clarified above - so how can it possibly be a way of avoiding the original statement or indeed a ‘tactic’?

‘I’m puzzled’ means precisely what it says…it’s a polite means of requesting clarification and never a tactic to avoid ‘addressing the original statement’. Why would I, or anyone, do that?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't know rA. I'm puzzled

[ramAnag]

I don't know rA. I'm puzzled

Lol…you and I both.

[Andy_Faber]

I don't know rA. I'm puzzled

See what you did there

[Trickytreesreds]

Which bit of me saying…‘without defending any of the violence’…didn’t you understand?

Thought you usually castigated Swale for making ‘Nazi’ comparisons.

Still puzzled by Andy’s talk of ‘tactics’ and ‘bias’.

But you did, you excused it as a retalitory attack, ignoring the fact it was a police matter to solve.
Want to live in the west? Drop your 3rd world attitudes and normal reactions.
Had that happened here, and the far right had done it, Both you and Swale would have been having kittens
So, you don't think stopping white people in the streets asking for their papers, or chasing jews through the streets yelling anto semitic rhetoric isn't comparable to Nazi Germany?

[Trickytreesreds]

Here's one for MA, seeing as he was defending Starmers early release fiasco. Contrary to his beliefs, violent offenders are being released and the whole system is falling apart. Its about as organised as his smash the gangs hot air.

This clown couldn't run a bath

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/inside-probation-chaos-as-violent-offenders-let-out-early-with-nowhere-to-go/ar-AA1tRXG2

[ramAnag]

But you did, you excused it as a retalitory attack, ignoring the fact it was a police matter to solve.
Want to live in the west? Drop your 3rd world attitudes and normal reactions.
Had that happened here, and the far right had done it, Both you and Swale would have been having kittens
So, you don't think stopping white people in the streets asking for their papers, or chasing jews through the streets yelling anto semitic rhetoric isn't comparable to Nazi Germany?

I didn’t ‘excuse’ anything at all. I suggested that it seemed likely that individuals on both sides were ‘all too happy’ to ‘retaliate’, meaning, I’m guessing there would be trouble makers on both sides…and there is absolutely nothing in my post to suggest I defended, in any way, ‘stopping white (or indeed any) people in the streets and asking for their papers, or chasing Jews through the street yelling anti semitic rhetoric’.
Suggest you read more carefully and stop clutching at straws by trying to twist my words.