Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'll make an an exception and respond to your ill informed *******s. That is not what's being said and as you would know if you were capable of serious thought, the background of every offender is or should be taken into account when sentencing. And if, as has been shown people of a certain ethnicity are receiving longer prison sentences for the same crimes as other groups, you don't think that's an anomaly that needs correcting? Or do you just respond to racist dog whistles?

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

[swaledale]

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

Except it specifically refers to the evidence that those from an ethnic minority background were receiving disproportionately longer sentences than others for the same crime.

The suggestion that as you put it that the -ism should be taken into account and lesser sentences given was not the suggestion. A judge under sentencing guidelines is supposedly required to take account of all circumstances when sentencing.

In terms of identical crimes - that's not what is being said, (by the sentencing council, the Lammy report was 10 years ago) obviously crimes of a similar nature aren't identical, but they can be comparable, there are types of crimes e.g. robbery, assault etc which have guideline sentences, then there are guidelines as to other factors, such as pleading guilty, use of violence, previous record etc. which are taken into account.

Obviously, apart from the simplistic punishment and retribution view, the justice system is however imperfectly trying to balance both punishment, deterrent and rehabilitation.

[ramAnag]

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

I think, GP, that there is some confusion over this issue. Some of it, as in yours and mine, genuine and some more contrived and malicious, put about by those who want to perpetuate the infantile ‘two tier Kier’ jibe.

The question, imo, seems to revolve around the need for PSRs (pre-sentence reports) which have been identified as necessary for a range of people including those fitting the description of ethnic minority, cultural minority, faith minority, transgender, pregnant, post natal, primary carer for dependent relatives, victims of trafficking, victims of and those at risk of further domestic abuse.

It’s easy to see how the first four at least are likely to set off the two tier Kier brigade and others on the Right who rarely look at things beyond the most superficial level and I agree that greater clarification is necessary.

Having acknowledged that we also, again imo, have to recognise that we already have a two tier justice system and have done for years. There is a disproportionate level of incarceration as far as non-whites and poor people are concerned. The inequalities of the prison/justice systems is something Dickens was writing about well over 150 years ago but, much more recently a Cardiff University study identified that the imprisonment rate for the ten most deprived areas of England is ten times that of the ten least deprived areas of the country. Probably no great surprise. Certainly an example of a two tier system I would suggest.

[SithHappens]

Surely Farage has to resign after leaked messages prove the actions against lowe are a witch hunt.

[swaledale]

Surely Farage has to resign after leaked messages prove the actions against lowe are a witch hunt.

I mean Lowe is a thoroughly unpleasant person, but then so is Farage. But you over look the fact that Farage is mainly about himself and making money and being a so called disruptor than actually leading a serious political party. He should resign over the fact that he spends more time on cosying up to the Right Wing loonies in the States, he is on his 8th or 9th visit since the election, and his side hustles than he does on his role as an MP.

However, as has been shown recently, despite people having a negative view of both him and his role as an MP, they would still vote for him. Because in times of turmoil people who basically lack either the ability or desire to understand reality, vote for somebody who appears to offer something different, who offers simple "solutions" to complex issues.

I've been castigated often for my warnings about how Hitler came to power in Germany, yet Trump offers many parallels, persuade enough people that being a dictator and having an authoritarian state is the only way to get things done and one can quickly pervert the democratic process. History shows the end result is that generally the people who suffer, end up getting shafted or killed in pointless wars include the very people who voted the ****ers in!!

I mean we have our own pathetic example on here, one who has lauded the military dictatorship that is Thailand as how a country should be run!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Surely Farage has to resign after leaked messages prove the actions against lowe are a witch hunt.

Swale?s rant/ manifesto didn?t really answer your question, I think there?s useful insight in this, just posted online from a credible source

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8x4np7zkx9o

Which in summary suggests ?no? but it seems there is ?trouble at?t mill?, seemingly because ?the management? are going too mainstream

[Trickytreesreds]

I mean Lowe is a thoroughly unpleasant person, but then so is Farage. But you over look the fact that Farage is mainly about himself and making money and being a so called disruptor than actually leading a serious political party. He should resign over the fact that he spends more time on cosying up to the Right Wing loonies in the States, he is on his 8th or 9th visit since the election, and his side hustles than he does on his role as an MP.

However, as has been shown recently, despite people having a negative view of both him and his role as an MP, they would still vote for him. Because in times of turmoil people who basically lack either the ability or desire to understand reality, vote for somebody who appears to offer something different, who offers simple "solutions" to complex issues.

I've been castigated often for my warnings about how Hitler came to power in Germany, yet Trump offers many parallels, persuade enough people that being a dictator and having an authoritarian state is the only way to get things done and one can quickly pervert the democratic process. History shows the end result is that generally the people who suffer, end up getting shafted or killed in pointless wars include the very people who voted the ****ers in!!

I mean we have our own pathetic example on here, one who has lauded the military dictatorship that is Thailand as how a country should be run!!!

oh do one swale

Where thailand is concerned, the goverment makes sure its citizens and the country do not suffer to the detriment of its people.
They limit immigration, ban foreign owner ship of land and protect the country from outside interference.
I know more of this than you, so shut yer mouth,
The people are the most pleasant on the planet and are actually very content.
They certainly don't have the problems we have here, on crime and social chaos.

[Andy_Faber]

oh do one swale

Where thailand is concerned, the goverment makes sure its citizens and the country do not suffer to the detriment of its people.
They limit immigration, ban foreign owner ship of land and protect the country from outside interference.
I know more of this than you, so shut yer mouth,
The people are the most pleasant on the planet and are actually very content.
They certainly don't have the problems we have here, on crime and social chaos.

Easy with the insults TTR, we've had a good run

[swaledale]

oh do one swale

Where thailand is concerned, the goverment makes sure its citizens and the country do not suffer to the detriment of its people.
They limit immigration, ban foreign owner ship of land and protect the country from outside interference.
I know more of this than you, so shut yer mouth,
The people are the most pleasant on the planet and are actually very content.
They certainly don't have the problems we have here, on crime and social chaos.

It isn't the people who are the issue, they rarely are, but you know there were people who defended Hitler on the basis he oversaw the building of excellent motorways, Mussolini made the trains run on time and so and so forth. Your answer, merely demonstrates how ill informed you are and how naive your world view is. You only see what you want to see, the Thai government does what the military wants it to do and in the event that the detriment of the people interferes with what the military dictatorship wants, its the people who suffer.

As for you knowing more of this than me, that's obviously not the case by the bull**** you have just posted. But then I guess a country which is riddled with corruption, sees regular extra judicial imprisonment, where the majority lack access to basic health care, where the majority are on subsistence wages and where the death penalty is still used even for cases other than murder, where any word criticising the government or monarchy can land you in jail, is one where you as in Thai terms are an known as an LBH, are perfectly happy with.

As for limiting immigration, who the **** wants to emigrate to Thailand? Apart from sad people like yourself, who lack the ability to recognise that what you experience is based on your ability to pay them what they want.

There really is no hope for people like yourself, quite happy to see peoples lives ****ed up until such times as it you who get caught up in the madness. Happy to support people who are by the very definition part of the so called elite and establishment, easily conned because being a simple chap, someone doing certain things you agree with, is to be supported irrespective of how they do these things or what other more dubious actions they might take along the way.

Dear Lord, some people really lack any kind of understanding of reality.

[Trickytreesreds]

Easy with the insults TTR, we've had a good run

apologies Andy, but he really does get up folk's noses with his holier than thou opinions.
He thinks his opinion is the only one that counts, and thailand is my territory not his
In fact, I'm off there nearly full time. This government will drive loads of us out. It cares more for illegals than the rest of us

[Trickytreesreds]

It isn't the people who are the issue, they rarely are, but you know there were people who defended Hitler on the basis he oversaw the building of excellent motorways, Mussolini made the trains run on time and so and so forth. Your answer, merely demonstrates how ill informed you are and how naive your world view is. You only see what you want to see, the Thai government does what the military wants it to do and in the event that the detriment of the people interferes with what the military dictatorship wants, its the people who suffer.

As for you knowing more of this than me, that's obviously not the case by the bull**** you have just posted. But then I guess a country which is riddled with corruption, sees regular extra judicial imprisonment, where the majority lack access to basic health care, where the majority are on subsistence wages and where the death penalty is still used even for cases other than murder, where any word criticising the government or monarchy can land you in jail, is one where you as in Thai terms are an known as an LBH, are perfectly happy with.

As for limiting immigration, who the **** wants to emigrate to Thailand? Apart from sad people like yourself, who lack the ability to recognise that what you experience is based on your ability to pay them what they want.

There really is no hope for people like yourself, quite happy to see peoples lives ****ed up until such times as it you who get caught up in the madness. Happy to support people who are by the very definition part of the so called elite and establishment, easily conned because being a simple chap, someone doing certain things you agree with, is to be supported irrespective of how they do these things or what other more dubious actions they might take along the way.

Dear Lord, some people really lack any kind of understanding of reality.

hang on, how come I get pulled up, when this plank posts like this?

[Andy_Faber]

hang on, how come I get pulled up, when this plank posts like this?

you sometimes listen

[Trickytreesreds]

you sometimes listen

i try Andy, but it get monotonous getting slapped around the face by the same garbage

[ramAnag]

hang on, how come I get pulled up, when this plank posts like this?

Because, although ‘he’ isn’t always right - none of us are - the majority of what he says is intelligible and true?
You rarely agree and we all sometimes disagree, but you won’t find him writing such total bollux as suggesting you’re being driven out because this country ‘cares more for illegals than the rest of us’.
Like many others, you’re going to Thailand because you can find the relationship and standard of living you’re looking for more easily there. Good luck to you, but let’s not pretend otherwise.

[Geoff Parkstone]

What is truth?? It's generally fair to say that when it comes to opinion there is rarely absolute truth but more a perception of one's own belief and thus skewed thereby.

Eg it's a matter of fact that Derby are in a relegation place and so it's truth. On the other hand the opinion that eg Starmer is a good PM can be shared by others but cannot be "truth"