Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Of course the elephant in this room is kosher methods of slaughtering animals!!

Not sure the whole country is falling over itself to provide kosher options, but the ritual aspect is a bit similar - I've had a Jewish Israeli boss (quite an experience) who wouldn't allow milk and beef or eggs and chicken to be offered together at corporate do's

[swaledale]

‘It seems no-one here wants to have a sensible discussion…’.

I disagree. All the time in the world for a sensible discussion but, imo, you weren’t at all sensible and were out of order to claim initially that a) I’d made others out to be racist. b) I’d treated MA’s response differently from any other. c) Become arrogant and slightly rude when reminded that you hadn’t responded to the reply you asked me to provide.

It works both ways AF and it isn’t at all blinkered to suggest that there are forces at work to make racist attitudes and behaviours more acceptable.

You want sensible? Then how about you provide your honest opinion to a few questions.
1. How was it ever acceptable for someone to assume some sort of heroic status as a result of encouraging arson and murder?
2. Why do you appear to struggle so much with what you consider to be a disproportionate number of Black/Asian presenters? Why does it matter what colour/religion presenters are?
3. Do you agree or not that a large part of Farage and Trump’s (amongst others) agendas is to provide credibility and respectability to racist views?

There’s no trick from me either, but I’ve finished cutting the grass and am also genuinely interested.

I fear you will wait in vain for a reasoned answer RA, its puzzling, AF claims to be even handed yet so many of his posts contain elements of a xenophobic/racist tinge.


To add another dimension, if its immigration/asylum seekers that rouse these imbeciles (thugs) protesting so much, how come this so called "anger2 is in areas such as Lincolnshire, Es*** etc. where the proportion of immigrants is1% or less?

Anyway I I was in hospital in East London yesterday, 85% of the patients were white, (roughly), whilst around the same approx % of the consultants, Dr's nurses etc. were immigrants or at least had an immigrant background. I was spoken to and treated by a Polish consultant, an Irish Dr, an Asian consultant, a Nigerian nurse, a Malaysian pharmacist and had coffee from a coffee shop being run by two very nice young women of Muslim origin wearing headscarfs. Not once did I think this is odd, just grateful that I was getting treated by friendly, experienced and sympathetic human beings.

[swaledale]

Coverage: because the news outlets need something to fall back on to fill their timeslots/pages and justify their existence

Increase since the Tories: I think the change in administration is just coincidental, 'the people' have just had enough of failed promises/initiatives and what they see as over-sympathetic treatment over the years. NB I wouldn't describe the Tories as hving been in control of anything in particular, hence Labour's chance

I'll beg to differ about 'answers', no-one knows the answer/answers, 'smashing the gangs' is just a silly catchphrase. I have a friend from Zanki in Iraq who describes this as a 'many-headed snake', chop one head off and another rises.

I wouldn't disagree with you on "smash the gangs", rather like the "war on drugs" it will achieve very little. However thats no reason not to disrupt these gangs and take effective action.

Some answers are available, make a safe route available for people to claim asylum outside the UK, thats a major reason for the boats. Return to the agreement on returns we had with France and the EU, Labour is taking steps towards this, but Brexit meant we lost the automatic right to return those who could legitimately have claimed asylum in another Eu country. I.e.e those without family connections to the UK.

Clamp down on illegal working in the UK whether it be asylum seekers or illegal migrants trafficked in to do jobs, this would remove an incentive.

Process asylum claims quickly and deport those whose claims failed quickly, again Labour is making efforts to do this, funnily enough without the hoo ha over last minute legal challenges, which were mostly performative events staged by the Tory government.

Of course real effective action takes time and tends to be unseen, but its the only way forward. If people are foolish enough to swallow the crap being pumped out by Farage, well, like those in Trump's America, they will regret it.

[SithHappens]

Wonder how many of those complaining of halal products etc in asda etc happily eat meat products on their annual holidays to Turkiye without asking how it's cooked, or even demand bacon and sausages for their breakfast

[Andy_Faber]

Lets al so remember, that the majority of the UK voters aren't focussed on asylum seekers

According to Ipsos, Statista and Yougov they are

[Andy_Faber]

I struggle to believe there is any truly humane way of slaughtering animals. I cannot believe that transporting them in cramped conditions then the actual process does not create fear and distress.

I used to be vegetarian but in moments of weakness I began eating meat again although I dont eat much and eat a mostly vegetarian diet

I wish i could be totally vegetarian, maybe one day I'll try again

Good for you trying but how far does any vegetarian/vegan take it? Refuse to sit on leather car seats? rip the wallpaper off their walls? Its pretty difficult to be pure, there are so many products with animal by-products in them or used in related processes

[SithHappens]

Good for you trying but how far does any vegetarian/vegan take it? Refuse to sit on leather car seats? rip the wallpaper off their walls? Its pretty difficult to be pure, there are so many products with animal by-products in them or used in related processes

Yep its hard. Even drinking Beer as I think fish bladders are still used in production?

I think if I did go further today I'd be a pescatarian rather than a vegetarian.

[Andy_Faber]

I wouldn't disagree with you on "smash the gangs", rather like the "war on drugs" it will achieve very little. However thats no reason not to disrupt these gangs and take effective action.

Some answers are available, make a safe route available for people to claim asylum outside the UK, thats a major reason for the boats. Return to the agreement on returns we had with France and the EU, Labour is taking steps towards this, but Brexit meant we lost the automatic right to return those who could legitimately have claimed asylum in another Eu country. I.e.e those without family connections to the UK.

Clamp down on illegal working in the UK whether it be asylum seekers or illegal migrants trafficked in to do jobs, this would remove an incentive.

Process asylum claims quickly and deport those whose claims failed quickly, again Labour is making efforts to do this, funnily enough without the hoo ha over last minute legal challenges, which were mostly performative events staged by the Tory government.

Of course real effective action takes time and tends to be unseen, but its the only way forward. If people are foolish enough to swallow the crap being pumped out by Farage, well, like those in Trump's America, they will regret it.

I agree with some of that, with the provisos that there's a cap, and (much more difficult) that incomers 'integrate', regretably most appear to have little desire to, and there's no push by local or central govt to do so either (maybe I'm missing something)

I don't even have an issue with low skilled people coming in if there's a job (at the same pay rate as the indigenous population to avoid slavery) for them. Maybe we could do a one for one swap with France and give them some of our indigenous lazybones in exchange for incoming low-skilled workers? Idon't think that ones especially racist by the way...

[Andy_Faber]

Wonder how many of those complaining of halal products etc in asda etc happily eat meat products on their annual holidays to Turkiye without asking how it's cooked, or even demand bacon and sausages for their breakfast

As with most things these days, its bloody difficult to be devout about it

[ramAnag]

I said has been dopey. BTW when they said it was 750 000 , they lied. It was actually over 900 000

Nevertheless it is acknowledged that net migration last year - and we are after all talking about the current situation - was 431,000, a decrease from the previous year’s total of 685,000 and both a very long way from your exaggerated one million claim.

I also think your comments regarding Halal are wide of the mark. I claim no expertise on animal cruelty, but I do know enough about food sources to understand that more conventional/western methods of food production - particularly where poultry and pigs are concerned - are equally flawed and questionable.

As regards your comment, ‘St. George’s flag is our national flag. Why should the majority of us feel ashamed to fly it?’, I have to answer, because yet again it has been hijacked by those on the Right just as it has been by the National Front and assorted football hooligans for the last 50-60 years.

I am proud of many aspects of MY country. Love to see us do well at sport, took enormous pleasure at the achievements of the British Lions in Australia and thoroughly enjoyed my day at Old Trafford last month when England’s cricketers were in the ascendancy against India. I am also proud of our NHS, our National Parks and our achievements in the areas of architecture, engineering, theatre, music and film.
The sight of hooded morons however, attacking police vehicles, abusing foreigners and setting fire to buildings while others happily wave their British and English flags or use them as a source of graffiti does nothing but make me, and I suspect the vast majority of decent folk, feel thoroughly ashamed.

[ramAnag]

You want sensible? Then how about you provide your honest opinion to a few questions.
1. How was it ever acceptable for someone to assume some sort of heroic status as a result of encouraging arson and murder?
2. Why do you appear to struggle so much with what you consider to be a disproportionate number of Black/Asian presenters? Why does it matter what colour/religion presenters are?
3. Do you agree or not that a large part of Farage and Trump’s (amongst others) agendas is to provide credibility and respectability to racist views?

Well, I thought I’d asked politely and that the questions are all sensible, but it would seem, despite being virtually ever present over the last few days, that you prefer asking questions to answering them.

[swaledale]

Yep its hard. Even drinking Beer as I think fish bladders are still used in production?

I think if I did go further today I'd be a pescatarian rather than a vegetarian.

Not in most beer Sith!!

[swaledale]

According to Ipsos, Statista and Yougov they are

Ah according to polls, yeah I take them at face value, because of course they are always reliable, the people giving the answers are truthful, the way a question is asked has of course no influence on the answer received and a person who is actually capable of thinking would assume them to be a reliable indicator of what UK voters are thinking. Always bearing in mind that many UK voters don't actually think to deeply about these issues and would give a very different answer if asked the same question the next day!

So forgive me if I am sceptical about such polls indicating anything other than there are a significant number of people who for some bizarre reason are concerned about an issue which doesn't even affect most of them, probably because of the endless pushing of the issue by certain online grifters and right wing media.

But here are some numbers for you - 3,000 estimated to be taking part in protests against Asylum seekers, 100,000 estimated attendance at the London pride march. Now I don't for one moment think that means more people are interested in LBGQT rights than Asylum seekers, but it does rather show your reply hasn't been very well thought out.

[swaledale]

Well, I thought I’d asked politely and that the questions are all sensible, but it would seem, despite being virtually ever present over the last few days, that you prefer asking questions to answering them.

Note how quick he is to provide what he considers to be a clever reply, which instead of proving a point as he claims, merely serves to demonstrate his naivety over these matters!

[swaledale]

I didn?t offer any opinion on myself, just frustrated that when I make a comment on my view on an issue it?s met met with personal criticism to a reasoned response

That rather depends upon what you consider a reasoned response! The personal criticism has generally been when either you or GP has made some petty observation to a post of mine, rather than providing an objective response. Why are you surprised when such a response gets a sharp retort?

In any case, your usual modus operandi is to selectively reply and then disappear when that's comprehensively shown to be total *******s! I mean there is only so much tosh obviously regurgitated from dubious sources that one can read before assuming that there the person doing that has a clear lack of cognitive ability.

I have tried to a ask a question in a polite way and received no response, as has RA, equally frustrating.