Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

Which, translated from AF speak, means, ‘I can continue to make my own topical and personal asides but whenever I’m asked to back them up I’ll claim it’s all descending into unpleasantness and do a runner’.

At least have the courage of your convictions man. You’re only being asked to back up what you’ve suggested. Disagreement doesn’t have to be unpleasant, it can be respectful.

Anyway, back on topic. Tbh I’d never heard of this Charlie Kirk chap but I have been to Utah, where he was apparently killed. Absolutely magnificent landscape, weird drinking laws (which the friendly young waiter who served us actually agreed were odd) but possibly most relevant of all, I remember being in the same bar/restaurant where T-shirts were on sale with the logo, ‘You’re in Utah. Imagine everyone is armed!’, emblazoned above an image of a handgun. Tells its own story, live by the gun laws…….

It seems RA, that AF follows the right wing playbook of ignoring facts or awkward reality and just says what he wants and then vanishes squealing "Mummy those nasty people are asking me to justify myself and howl with laughter when I cite anecdotal evidence"!

Still as they say, even Hitler built good motorways and I believe Mussolini was famed for getting the trains to run on time, one has to look at the positives!!

[ramAnag]

And yet the last few occasions I?ve tried to enter into a debate the responses were unpleasant so you?ll have to suffer whatever approach I choose to take. You?ve bullied, bored or bull****ted away from the forum everyone with a remotely different view and now there?s just me, and I don?t even have a strong opinion one way or another, just don?t like the entrenched to have their way. So, if you don?t like my future approach, to quote the great Ed Rooney, suck it up buttercup

There’s only really been you, GP (sometimes) and Tricky with right wing views, AF.
You repeatedly deny it, GP plays at it and, in your own words from long ago, threatens to leave the forum more than anyone else, and I doubt very much that I’ve bullied anyone, least of all TTR who thrives off and instigates conflict.

‘Bullied, bored or bull****ted people away with a different view?. There’s another b word you’ve missed - bollux - and you know it.

For the record, I take exception to right wing bullying of the type that is currently rife in this country and which you seem to tacitly defend. I always will do, but I totally accept that people have different views and it is only by arguing your case that minds can be changed, hence perhaps the 4000 plus responses to this thread. People hardly seem to have been bullied away from that have they? Here’s a thought, perhaps the problem lies with the unreliability of the forum rather than the person who started the most responded to thread.

[Andy_Faber]

There?s only really been you, GP (sometimes) and Tricky with right wing views, AF.
You repeatedly deny it, GP plays at it and, in your own words from long ago, threatens to leave the forum more than anyone else, and I doubt very much that I?ve bullied anyone, least of all TTR who thrives off and instigates conflict.

?Bullied, bored or bull****ted people away with a different view?. There?s another b word you?ve missed - bollux - and you know it.

For the record, I take exception to right wing bullying of the type that is currently rife in this country and which you seem to tacitly defend. I always will do, but I totally accept that people have different views and it is only by arguing your case that minds can be changed, hence perhaps the 4000 plus responses to this thread. People hardly seem to have been bullied away from that have they? Here?s a thought, perhaps the problem lies with the unreliability of the forum rather than the person who started the most responded to thread.

As I said yesterday, nothing any of us have said since the year dot has moved anyone's worldview a fraction of a degree so you're really wasting your breath (as am I really). Swale seems incapable of comprehending that anyone would have a different view to him and you just tag along 6 months behind, fair enough but you've started to adopt his personal attack methods which is disappointing, 'youre better than that'. MA (who's opinions I disagree with a bit and agree with a bit) and Sith (likewise) don't feel the need to get personal, follow their example not Swale's.

[SithHappens]

On Charlie Kirk, I will admit to not really knowing anything about him before the horrible events this week.

I have read details on what he has supposed to have said and my initial thoughts were hed said some horrible things but what I can see is there is a lot of disinformation about the things he's supposed to have said and people are falling foul by making judgments without fact checking, look up Stephen King (yes that one) as an example.

He seems aligned to Trump, Musk and Farage so I expect I would strongly disagree with much hes said but I can't imagine anything he's said justifies what some are saying, and even celebrating his death.

His wife and young children have lost a husband and dad and that's tragic. And if it's true his dad handed him in, then that's got to be one of the most traumatic yet brave things a person can do.

[MadAmster]

So, Kirk's killer turns out to be a MAGA right wing Mormon and member of Groyner (I think that's the name) which makes Kirk's movement look very middle of the road (slight exaggeration there but you get the drift). I won't hold my breath waiting for the FFF to admit he got it wrong... again.

[Andy_Faber]

On Charlie Kirk, I will admit to not really knowing anything about him before the horrible events this week.

I have read details on what he has supposed to have said and my initial thoughts were hed said some horrible things but what I can see is there is a lot of disinformation about the things he's supposed to have said and people are falling foul by making judgments without fact checking, look up Stephen King (yes that one) as an example.

He seems aligned to Trump, Musk and Farage so I expect I would strongly disagree with much hes said but I can't imagine anything he's said justifies what some are saying, and even celebrating his death.

His wife and young children have lost a husband and dad and that's tragic. And if it's true his dad handed him in, then that's got to be one of the most traumatic yet brave things a person can do.

Well put Sith. Too many people (inc on here) are clutching at straws and playing catch up with their hatred. I followed him (and his liberal adversaries) a lot, I disagreed totally with some of his beliefs but he debated, rather than indoctrinated.

More important than anything tome however is the life lost and the fatherless family. I know its US again but I find the murder of Iryna Zarutska, a total innocent, more troubling

[SithHappens]

Well put Sith. Too many people (inc on here) are clutching at straws and playing catch up with their hatred. I followed him (and his liberal adversaries) a lot, I disagreed totally with some of his beliefs but he debated, rather than indoctrinated.

More important than anything tome however is the life lost and the fatherless family. I know its US again but I find the murder of Iryna Zarutska, a total innocent, more troubling

Yes her murder was awful. If you are on X you can't help but come across posts about it.

Why on earth someone would do that you can't comprehend, the fact others seem to ignore what was happening to her too is also something I can't get my head around.

Appreciate they couldn't have stopped what happened but trying to help is something you would think would come naturally to people.

[ramAnag]

As I said yesterday, nothing any of us have said since the year dot has moved anyone's worldview a fraction of a degree so you're really wasting your breath (as am I really). Swale seems incapable of comprehending that anyone would have a different view to him and you just tag along 6 months behind, fair enough but you've started to adopt his personal attack methods which is disappointing, 'youre better than that'. MA (who's opinions I disagree with a bit and agree with a bit) and Sith (likewise) don't feel the need to get personal, follow their example not Swale's.

I really don’t need lessons from anyone on how to post or behave, least of all you, AF.

Again, for the record, Swale and I regularly see eye to eye where politics is concerned. You don’t like that, not our problem.
As you’ve brought them both up, I agree with the majority of MA’s political comments and Sith’s too. Indeed I seem to remember Sith commenting, during a recent very minor (and polite) disagreement between the two of us, ‘I rarely disagree with rA, but….’. So he’s hardly intimidated by my ‘bullying’ is he? I also doubt there’s anyone on here who MA would feel intimidated by.
Neither of them have ever complained about anything I’ve written. Both of them, along with others, have regularly complained about the technical difficulties which have ruined this forum and which you, as ‘moderator’ are meant to have most responsibility for.

As regards Swale. I think he is perfectly capable of comprehending that others have a different world view, he just gets frustrated by your nonsense and the type of hypocrisy you spout when accusing others of making ‘personal attacks’ via your own…guess what…oh yeah, personal attacks. Remind me…what has repeatedly featured in your recent name calling…blinkered, entrenched, bullying, boring, bull****ters. Sorry, who is it making ‘personal attacks’?

[Andy_Faber]

Yes her murder was awful. If you are on X you can't help but come across posts about it.

Why on earth someone would do that you can't comprehend, the fact others seem to ignore what was happening to her too is also something I can't get my head around.

Appreciate they couldn't have stopped what happened but trying to help is something you would think would come naturally to people.

Me and Mrs F were in a similar situation (not so fatal, the guy was having a seizure so it was tongue out of throat, recovery position, loosen collar, look for meds instruction in his wallet, call ambulance blah blah) whilst folk were walking over him and driving round him/on their horns. In B & Q car park….

[Andy_Faber]

So, Kirk's killer turns out to be a MAGA right wing Mormon and member of Groyner (I think that's the name) which makes Kirk's movement look very middle of the road (slight exaggeration there but you get the drift). I won't hold my breath waiting for the FFF to admit he got it wrong... again.

Not very accurate MA, not your usual effort

[ramAnag]

Me and Mrs F were in a similar situation (not so fatal, the guy was having a seizure so it was tongue out of throat, recovery position, loosen collar, look for meds instruction in his wallet, call ambulance blah blah) whilst folk were walking over him and driving round him/on their horns. In B & Q car park?….

Is that really a ‘similar situation’, helping someone having an epileptic seizure/heart attack(?) in a B&Q car park, compared to witnessing someone being knifed to death in a U.S. train compartment. ‘Not so fatal’ indeed…and not at all ‘similar’ either imo.

[SithHappens]

While the cause might he different there is a valid comparison though imo. Someone in need of help and people, for some reason, are too busy or disinterested to offer help. I sort of get people may be less inclined where there might be a danger to themselves so you could argue there is a difference there.

But while others failed, Andy offered help and that's worth praising even though I'm positive praise was the farthest thing from his kind at the time.

Having seen the video on that train I still find it hard to comprehend not one of those sat near her showed interest in helping her. Apparantly someone did offer help around 2 minutes later.

[Andy_Faber]

Is that really a ?similar situation?, helping someone having an epileptic RT seizure/heart attack(?) in a B&Q car park, compared to witnessing someone being knifed to death in a U.S. train compartment. ?Not so fatal? indeed?and not at all ?similar? either imo.

Not interested in your hair splitting rA especially as you will no doubt be 3 days behind regarding the incident

[ramAnag]

Not interested in your hair splitting rA especially as you will no doubt be 3 days behind regarding the incident

Fair do’s. I recognise Sith’s point about folks being reluctant to get involved, but really, beyond that there is no comparison between the two scenarios and if anyone else had turned that account into a story about you and Mrs.F helping someone in need you’d have been the first to accuse them of what you call ‘virtue signalling’.

BTW, why am I ‘3 days behind’? I know I’ve spent three days travelling by road and ferry this week but it’s not that hard to keep up.

[Andy_Faber]

While the cause might he different there is a valid comparison though imo. Someone in need of help and people, for some reason, are too busy or disinterested to offer help. I sort of get people may be less inclined where there might be a danger to themselves so you could argue there is a difference there.

But while others failed, Andy offered help and that's worth praising even though I'm positive praise was the farthest thing from his kind at the time.

Having seen the video on that train I still find it hard to comprehend not one of those sat near her showed interest in helping her. Apparantly someone did offer help around 2 minutes later.

I doubt we saved his life my point was the disinterest from others.

Regarding Kirk, It would appear that the predicted post assassination riots haven’t happened but theres a retribution of another sort going on - those who celebrated his killing on-line are being identified to their workplaces (in fact I believe there’s been an app set up for the purpose) and in many cases subsequently relieved of their jobs. I don’t agree with ‘cancel culture’ from whatever ‘side’ but this does seem to be evening things up.