Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

I'm not even sure any of the more liberal posters on here are even comfortable with the level of immigration or the amount it costs.

'.

Well said, there can be a nuanced / conflicted view

[ramAnag]

Well said, there can be a nuanced / conflicted view

I don’t think the existence of a nuanced view has ever been in doubt, but you won’t find Farage, or any of his more vociferous supporters, expressing one.

[swaledale]

It's similar to my wondering some time back as to how many pro Palestinian supporters would head to Gaza to aid in the rebuilding / distribution of food etc now that a form of uneasy peace exists. Very happy to talk the talk, far less willing to walk the walk. Same with giving aid to asylum seekers - talk the talk as long as it's state funds being given away, not their own. (Depending on their tax status of course).

Basically it's a society that shout a lot but do **** all about the issues they love to shout about. AKA hypocrites.

And your evidence for this is?

I take it your inferring that those on protests, which after all is taking some action, don't do anything other than protest?

I know for a fact that some do, contributing, donations of clothes, or money to aid the Palestinians. I also know, as you would with some basic research that there a number of charities that do provide practical support to Asylum seekers and many people who do "pro bono" work on their behalf.

As for actually heading into Gaza, well given recent experiences, it rather depends upon who the Israeli government allows to enter doesn't it?

Of course there have been aid boats attempting to get there, Greta Thunberg was on one, but I'm sure I remember you taking the piss out of her efforts?

It seems you want it both ways, but suspect your just being a grumpy old sod for the sake of it.

[Andy_Faber]

I don?t think the existence of a nuanced view has ever been in doubt, but you won?t find Farage, or any of his more vociferous supporters, expressing one.

I meant within us posters

[swaledale]

Serious question, how come he is / reform is so popular?

Well first one has to define "so popular", the Polls indicate that reform is more popular than other parties at the moment, but anybody who takes them at face value doesn't understand the flaws.

His main attraction seems to be, as indeed with most populists, is that they can tap into issues that a certain proportion of the population get angsty about and offer simplistic solutions and of course a scapegoat, in this case immigrants. Many voters like simple solutions it means they don't have to think about the complications of life.

One of the most robust findings in social psychology is that people find ways to believe whatever they want to believe.

The swathe of anti Labour sentiment, that is whipped up by the billionaire ex pat owned media is definitely amplifying the "message" he spreads which ought to make most people wonder why, and despite having a number of opaque if not exactly dodgy dealings there isn't it seems the same level of focus on this.

Where he will fall apart and its happening now, is when he tries to put forward detailed financial policies and move away from the immigration dog whistle politics, which he will if he is to get the votes he needs.

The other main reason, is no political party is offering a real alternative, yet as the recent election of the Mayor in new York shows it can be done, it also shows the extent, which isn't exactly mirrored in the UK, that the real wealthy elite will go to oppose any politician that has the nerve to offer a different vision. Billions of dollars were pumped into opposing the guy who won, even many in the Democratic party opposed him.

[swaledale]

rA:"Where both Farage and Hitler are concerned I think one has to recognise their strengths. One can despise their messages and aims but danger lies if we just dismiss them as fools. They are/were both clever and, imo, unscrupulous politicians who communicate well and effectively, if dishonestly."

I don't say this often: spot on.

Dangers lie in dismissal

Who is dismissing them as fools? There needs to be firm opposition focussing on their lies, hypocrisy and who is funding them and why?

[ramAnag]

Who is dismissing them as fools? There needs to be firm opposition focussing on their lies, hypocrisy and who is funding them and why?

Mea culpa. I have to admit that in the early days I was completely dismissive of Farage and even on the night of the Referendum I, and many others, went to bed confident in the knowledge that he’d been found out and that common sense would have prevailed.

I was shocked - nothing less - in the morning. The country has, imo, been horribly divided ever since that moment. No one has profited more from the turmoil than NF himself, imo, and I’ll certainly aim not make the same mistake again.
You’re 100% right, there absolutely needs to be firm opposition focussing on his lies, hypocrisy and the source of and motives behind his funding.

[SithHappens]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tactical-voting-set-to-thwart-farages-election-hopes-poll-shows-400001/

So would you? Obviously doesn't apply to the reform voters amongst us but for everyone else would you go down the 'anyone but reform route?'

I think you know my answer.

My Grandad used to say it's not about voting for who can be the best for you, but more about who can do the least harm.

[Andy_Faber]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...-shows-400001/

So would you? Obviously doesn't apply to the reform voters amongst us but for everyone else would you go down the 'anyone but reform route?'

I think you know my answer.

My Grandad used to say it's not about voting for who can be the best for you, but more about who can do the least harm.

No. I?d never tactical vote. And With all respect to your grandad wouldn?t that mean you?d be voting for the Raving Loony Party?

[SithHappens]

No. I?d never tactical vote. And With all respect to your grandad wouldn?t that mean you?d be voting for the Raving Loony Party?

Well if you took it to that extent you wouldn't vote at all.

[ramAnag]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...-shows-400001/

So would you? Obviously doesn't apply to the reform voters amongst us but for everyone else would you go down the 'anyone but reform route?'

I think you know my answer.

My Grandad used to say it's not about voting for who can be the best for you, but more about who can do the least harm.

Your Grandad had a point. I would vote tactically and, living where I live - which was until last year a very safe Tory seat - I have done for the last forty odd years.

[Andy_Faber]

Well if you took it to that extent you wouldn't vote at all.

Should be compulsory imo

[SithHappens]

Should be compulsory imo

Maybe, although an old work colleague of mine always said to vote you should have to pass an IQ test of sorts.

Although I suspect that was because he thought everyone who disagreed with him was thick.

I don't feel it should be compulsory but feel we should do more to encourage a bigger turnout.

Would online voting increase turnout?

Same Grandad always said if you don't vote you have absolutely no right to complain or moan about those in government.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Swale, on Farage: "Where he will fall apart and its happening now, is when he tries to put forward detailed financial policies and move away from ....."

Correct and this is where extremists always fall down, especially when only pursuing one key policy as their platform. Its just the same as we saw with Corbyn. Gets popular suypport for talking a story, but when it comes to the wider world of actual government, dont have a scoobie on practicalities.

Great in opposition, hopeless when the baton is handed to them for wider action.

[SithHappens]

Was Corbyn even that good in opposition?

But opposition should be easy, the tories aren't doing a great job though, they seem to be stuck between reform and a hard place.

We know reform are doing well, I think the party missing out right now are the lib dems because while I think Davey is a man of good character i think people struggle to take him seriously. In today's fractured political landscape I wonder what a Paddy Ashdown might do today.

That said, compared with today were we spoiled in the 90s? John Major, John Smith and Ashdown as the leaders of the main political parties. I wish we had that today.