Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

But he’s not. Firstly Trent College is cited because it’s local, not because it has the highest fees, it really doesn’t.
Secondly, the only point being made is that the fees for TC are actually higher than the national average wage, and yes, AF can quite reasonably make the point that there may be two average (or above) wages available to a particular family, but equally there may be two or more children in that family.

No, I meant they were comparing average wage to highest fees at that college, not highest nationally which would be way more I imagine. The highest fee is a boarding fee not an educational fee which is less than half the cost (but still a lot) Anyway see my post simultaneous to yours

[Andy_Faber]

there may be two or more children in that family.

In the example I'm most familiar with, there was. For various reasons including their own school experience the parents decided their children were going to a fee paying school and they'd 'make it work somehow' (with a sense check on a yearly basis) and make it work they did. I'm aware of a number of stories like that, I really think you (and RP) are coming from an ideological angle rather than a real-world one where (I will admit, reasonably well off but definitely NOT elite) families make a hard choice

[ramAnag]

In the example I'm most familiar with, there was. For various reasons including their own school experience the parents decided their children were going to a fee paying school and they'd 'make it work somehow' (with a sense check on a yearly basis) and make it work they did. I'm aware of a number of stories like that, I really think you (and RP) are coming from an ideological angle rather than a real-world one where (I will admit, reasonably well off but definitely NOT elite) families make a hard choice

Not something I often say, but maybe you should give GP’s figures (5070) a closer look.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not something I often say, but maybe you should give GP’s figures (5070) a closer look.

In fairness you probably look at them quite often but chose not to accept them or understand them!!

Strangely fees at Eton are "only" 63,000 per year - so just a 10k uplift on the mid tier schools I looked at earlier and that is inclusive of VAT. If you are going to have a donut, may as well have it with fresh cream and go to Eton!

What does seem common is the vast gulf in cost between day pupils and boarders - you can get the education and use of most facilities for half the cost of the full monty. Is it therefore value for money to board? I suspect this is where many schools make their money - especially where the guildings have been historically fully paid for

[Andy_Faber]

Not something I often say, but maybe you should give GP’s figures (5070) a closer look.

I'd already given them a close look

[Andy_Faber]

In fairness you probably look at them quite often but chose not to accept them or understand them!!

Strangely fees at Eton are "only" 63,000 per year - so just a 10k uplift on the mid tier schools I looked at earlier and that is inclusive of VAT. If you are going to have a donut, may as well have it with fresh cream and go to Eton!

What does seem common is the vast gulf in cost between day pupils and boarders - you can get the education and use of most facilities for half the cost of the full monty. Is it therefore value for money to board? I suspect this is where many schools make their money - especially where the guildings have been historically fully paid for

Many schools keep their heads above water (and some not, RIP Ockbrook Moravian amongst others) by taking in foreign boarders, mainly Chinese from my recollection

[SithHappens]

On the subject of school placements, Lucy Connolly is reporting her daughter has had a school place recinded because of connollys views.

Surely this isn't right, her daughter is not to blame for her mums racist views surely.

[Andy_Faber]

On the subject of school placements, Lucy Connolly is reporting her daughter has had a school place recinded because of connollys views.

Surely this isn't right, her daughter is not to blame for her mums racist views surely.

Absolutely agree. Maybe litigation beckons?

Also, after seeing the head's comment and relevant to your comments about friends and family a few months ago , I'd like to bet a decent proportion of that school's pupils parents are also 'racist' (or at least fail to call out racist actions)

[Andy_Faber]

I'm not sure where the discussion on fee-paying schools is going or what achievable point is being made - for as long as there is a free market, and assuming the administration in power at any time dont impose further taxes, tarrifs or laws, those with spare cash will exercise free will and invest in their children's education rather than one or more of a limitless list of alternatives.

[Geoff Parkstone]

AF..."I'm not sure where the discussion on fee-paying schools is going or what achievable point is being made"

So in that sense its no different to any other subject raised on this thread!

Otherwise I agree, people should have the ability to spend their net disposable income howsoever they want - private schooling, private health care, rather than the less efficacious state options; ludicrously expensive cars rather than getting the bus; cocaine rather than facing reality; works of art as opposed to Athena prints of a tennis player scratching her arse; beer and fags (see cocaine); second and third homes as opposed to a caravan in Wales; opulent or multiple overseas holidays as opposed to a week in Southend in August etc

It is an ideological difference based on one persons perception of a right to choose what to spend money on after they have stumped up their(fair share of) taxes and another's preference of "common good for all". Im in the former camp just in case that wasnt bleedin' obvious!

[Geoff Parkstone]

My kids' school specialised in Nepalese for historical reasons I never fully understood - its not that they were good at rugger. But on average only about 5-6% of fee paying students come from overseas - and the imposition of Vat will reduce that I imagine. An all to rare example of labour reducing (albeit temporary) immigration. I think that 5-6% may include kids of Brits posted abroad and paid for by foreign employer.

[ramAnag]

I'm not sure where the discussion on fee-paying schools is going or what achievable point is being made - for as long as there is a free market, and assuming the administration in power at any time dont impose further taxes, tarrifs or laws, those with spare cash will exercise free will and invest in their children's education rather than one or more of a limitless list of alternatives.

I doubt it’s going anywhere other than to provoke an, on this occasion, largely pleasantly polite exchange of views.

From my point of view I suppose it’s just symptomatic of what, imo, is wrong with society. The gap between the haves and the have nots has grown too large. That doesn’t really matter so much where things like cars, holidays, houses and clothes are the issue, but - again imo - it matters more where health, education and social care are concerned.

I don’t pretend to have the answer, but the question is, do we want to live in a society where the die is already largely cast from cradle to grave as far as achievement, health and provision for long term care are concerned, or is there a fairer alternative?

[Geoff Parkstone]

No idea why you’d say that, but if you ask Google, William Hill or the BBC you’ll get much the same answer and my guess is it’ll be a woman, with Jayne Turton the current favourite.

I doubt it’s going anywhere other than to provoke an, on this occasion, largely pleasantly polite exchange of views.

From my point of view I suppose it’s just symptomatic of what, imo, is wrong with society. The gap between the haves and the have nots has grown too large. That doesn’t really matter so much where things like cars, holidays, houses and clothes are the issue, but - again imo - it matters more where health, education and social care are concerned.

I don’t pretend to have the answer, but the question is, do we want to live in a society where the die is already largely cast from cradle to grave as far as achievement, health and provision for long term care are concerned, or is there a fairer alternative?

So do you think you had a privileged upbringing and/or do you feel you have underachieved?

Personally I didn't and I don't. People can overcome disadvantages of birth (or waste advantages) if they want to and put effort in. Not everyone I accept, but if everyone did where would the next generation of "unskilled workers" - who are critical to society functioning - come from (see COVID).

Your fatalistic view of no hope is really rather depressing - it rather denies the value of the role you had in pre retirement life

[ramAnag]

So do you think you had a privileged upbringing and/or do you feel you have underachieved?

Personally I didn't and I don't. People can overcome disadvantages of birth (or waste advantages) if they want to and put effort in. Not everyone I accept, but if everyone did where would the next generation of "unskilled workers" - who are critical to society functioning - come from (see COVID).

Your fatalistic view of no hope is really rather depressing - it rather denies the value of the role you had in pre retirement life

Not about me, or you, GP and of course people can overcome disadvantages of birth. I’m not really being fatalistic, but there are areas of both social advantage and disadvantage that we might be wise to address.

[Andy_Faber]

do we want to live in a society where the die is already largely cast from cradle to grave as far as achievement, health and provision for long term care are concerned, or is there a fairer alternative?

There are lots of different perspectives on what 'fair' is rA. I don't think even we few here would come to any sort of agreement about what fair is in this context if we rattled on til next season. What definitely wouldn't be fair though would be to deny 'hard working parents' their choice to invest in their children