Election Year or Fear!

[Ram Pant]

Isn't that the MAGA strategy, "flood the zone with ****e?"

Court orders full and unredacted release. First nothing, then a small %, then 3.5 million pages nobody can go through with any speed or thoroughness. Lots of redaction. When the names of possible perps aren't redacted, the rest of the text is. When the text is left alone the perp's names are redacted. The only names not redacted are those of the victims. Also, there's an estomated 3M mor pages to be released.

High time those responsible for the delay and the redacting were hauled up before the judge on contempt charges.

Unfortunately those are the very rich and famous and members of the givernment who don't want anyone to tie actions to names...

[SithHappens]

Not good from Starmer. Definitely a huge lack of judgment over mandleson.

[Andy_Faber]

Not good from Starmer. Definitely a huge lack of judgment over mandleson.

Not sure why the echo chamber went quiet on you there Sith, but I will respond that, if you didn’t see last nights Newsnight you should do. Politics is about theatre and Barrie Gardners (non) response about 30 minutes in was Oscar-worthy. Not necessarily a fan of his politics but very much an admirer of his passion and conviction

[Ram Pant]

Not good from Starmer. Definitely a huge lack of judgment over mandleson.

Obviously not yet learned how to spot a Mandelson lie...

[SithHappens]

Not seen a lot really, read it on BBC. He's fell for his lies but needs to demonstrate a bloody good reason for knowing he was in touch with Epstein after his conviction but still appointed him.

[ramAnag]

Not sure why the echo chamber went quiet on you there Sith, but I will respond that, if you didn?‚?’t see last nights Newsnight you should do. Politics is about theatre and Barrie Gardners (non) response about 30 minutes in was Oscar-worthy. Not necessarily a fan of his politics but very much an admirer of his passion and conviction

Echo chamber? I suspect no one responded because most can only agree but have nothing to add to Sith’s appraisal.

It is, self evidently, a very difficult time for Starmer and he has obviously made a huge error of judgement.
In his defence he isn’t the first to have been taken in by Mandelson. Blair and Brown have also fallen victim to his political ‘charm’ and intelligence and, perhaps less surprisingly, Trump didn’t seem to have any problem with Mandelson - possibly because of their previous shared friendships - prior to Starmer terminating his tenure as the U.S. Ambassador.

Question seems to be. Amongst all the self serving hand wringing from the usual suspects amongst his political rivals and those on the left of the Labour Party, is this enough to bring Starmer down? I for one don’t know the answer. He has, undoubtedly, made a serious error of judgement, but virtually all of Mandelson’s alleged wrongdoing took place over a decade and a half ago, long before Starmer assumed power within his party let alone the country.

So, apart from admiring one particular left wing Labour politician’s tenacity, where do you stand on Starmer’s future?

[SithHappens]

Echo chamber? I suspect no one responded because most can only agree but have nothing to add to Sith’s appraisal.

It is, self evidently, a very difficult time for Starmer and he has obviously made a huge error of judgement.
In his defence he isn’t the first to have been taken in by Mandelson. Blair and Brown have also fallen victim to his political ‘charm’ and intelligence and, perhaps less surprisingly, Trump didn’t seem to have any problem with Mandelson - possibly because of their previous shared friendships - prior to Starmer terminating his tenure as the U.S. Ambassador.

Question seems to be. Amongst all the self serving hand wringing from the usual suspects amongst his political rivals and those on the left of the Labour Party, is this enough to bring Starmer down? I for one don’t know the answer. He has, undoubtedly, made a serious error of judgement, but virtually all of Mandelson’s alleged wrongdoing took place over a decade and a half ago, long before Starmer assumed power within his party let alone the country.

So, apart from admiring one particular left wing Labour politician’s tenacity, where do you stand on Starmer’s future?

My view on Starmers future will depend somewhat on what's said over the coming days.

I think he's been badly advised but the buck still stops with him.

Do I think he should resign, I don't, as far as I know all he knew was Mandelson had retained contact and thats it. Nothing else was known at that point.

Appreciate this is whataboutery but if Starmer is considered no longer fit for office because he appointed someone who was in contact with a known pedophile then other party leaders should be in the same position if it's known they are in touch with equally deplorable individuals. I do notice how quiet a certain someone is on this matter.

[Ram Pant]

Don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere yesterday that, what is it, 19 months into this term, Labour have already fulfilled something like 2/3 or was it 3/4 of their election promises.

If true, that's some going by any stretch of the imagination. So, I aksed AI.. AI said...

As of mid-2025, assessments suggest the Labour government has delivered or is on track to deliver approximately 60% of its key manifesto pledges (22 out of 36 tracked promises), including initiating the renationalization of railways, setting up Great British Energy, and addressing NHS waiting lists. However, about 10 pledges are considered inconclusive.

Looks like what I read yesterday could well be true. AI doesn't, however, go into detail on what's been done or what hasn't. Still, 22 of 36 by mid 2025 puts a whole new slant on how successful they have been. I'm quite sure those so inclined will repost (perceived?) failures but they still have 3 and a half years to get the rest done. Now, I'm not going to say they'll get it all done or at least started and be on the way but it does seem like a high % of the manifesto will be implemented. Obviously, some of the things they're doing have long been said to be taking more than 1 Parliament to finish. Judge them closer to the end of this Parliament. Something I seem to remember posting pretty soon after the election. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey in a Z Cars kind of way.

[ramAnag]

Don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere yesterday that, what is it, 19 months into this term, Labour have already fulfilled something like 2/3 or was it 3/4 of their election promises.

If true, that's some going by any stretch of the imagination. So, I aksed AI.. AI said...

As of mid-2025, assessments suggest the Labour government has delivered or is on track to deliver approximately 60% of its key manifesto pledges (22 out of 36 tracked promises), including initiating the renationalization of railways, setting up Great British Energy, and addressing NHS waiting lists. However, about 10 pledges are considered inconclusive.

Looks like what I read yesterday could well be true. AI doesn't, however, go into detail on what's been done or what hasn't. Still, 22 of 36 by mid 2025 puts a whole new slant on how successful they have been. I'm quite sure those so inclined will repost (perceived?) failures but they still have 3 and a half years to get the rest done. Now, I'm not going to say they'll get it all done or at least started and be on the way but it does seem like a high % of the manifesto will be implemented. Obviously, some of the things they're doing have long been said to be taking more than 1 Parliament to finish. Judge them closer to the end of this Parliament. Something I seem to remember posting pretty soon after the election. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey in a Z Cars kind of way.

Z Cars. Wow. Monday evening(?) flashbacks to Newtown for those of a certain vintage. (A fine TV soap/crime drama from the sixties, Sith, which still provides the Everton matchday theme tune.)

Interesting perspective, RP, although not one that much of the British media seem willing to acknowledge.

Heard Starmer’s speech this morning and thought he came across very well. He’s obviously under massive pressure and has made a huge error of judgement, although he’s not on his own there, but has he done more than making a mistake in an appointment which he ended as soon as he could?

Inclined to agree with Sith on the evidence to date, as Bert Lynch might say.

[Andy_Faber]

Echo chamber? I suspect no one responded because most can only agree but have nothing to add to Sith’s appraisal.

It is, self evidently, a very difficult time for Starmer and he has obviously made a huge error of judgement.
In his defence he isn’t the first to have been taken in by Mandelson. Blair and Brown have also fallen victim to his political ‘charm’ and intelligence and, perhaps less surprisingly, Trump didn’t seem to have any problem with Mandelson - possibly because of their previous shared friendships - prior to Starmer terminating his tenure as the U.S. Ambassador.

Question seems to be. Amongst all the self serving hand wringing from the usual suspects amongst his political rivals and those on the left of the Labour Party, is this enough to bring Starmer down? I for one don’t know the answer. He has, undoubtedly, made a serious error of judgement, but virtually all of Mandelson’s alleged wrongdoing took place over a decade and a half ago, long before Starmer assumed power within his party let alone the country.

So, apart from admiring one particular left wing Labour politician’s tenacity, where do you stand on Starmer’s future?

As leader of the LP? It’s out of his hands, I think he’s lost some of the dressing room and to some extent hasn’t had it since the GE

As PM? If he lasts as leader of LP I hope but don’t expect that the current administration go full term and with him in charge, as you may have missed amongst all the acrimony I’ve always hoped that - he seems to understand the challenges of the job, he’s just not doing very well at it in the view of the plebs. Of course all that opinion may be irrelevant come the next revelation or crisis, whatever it may be

[ramAnag]

As leader of the LP? It?’s out of his hands, I think he?’s lost some of the dressing room and to some extent hasn?’t had it since the GE

As PM? If he lasts as leader of LP I hope but don?’t expect that the current administration go full term and with him in charge, as you may have missed amongst all the acrimony I?’ve always hoped that - he seems to understand the challenges of the job, he?’s just not doing very well at it in the view of the plebs. Of course all that opinion may be irrelevant come the next revelation or crisis, whatever it may be

That’s a fair response. Thankyou.

May be worth remembering that while Mandelson is being rightly castigated over his relationship with Epstein, the current POTUS is just as culpable. In 2002 - coincidentally at the height of Mandelson’s power - Trump said of Epstein, ‘I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy…he’s a lot of fun to be with, he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.’

Two years later they fell out, allegedly over a property purchase.

[Andy_Faber]

That’s a fair response. Thankyou.

May be worth remembering that while Mandelson is being rightly castigated over his relationship with Epstein, the current POTUS is just as culpable. In 2002 - coincidentally at the height of Mandelson’s power - Trump said of Epstein, ‘I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy…he’s a lot of fun to be with, he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.’

Two years later they fell out, allegedly over a property purchase.

Again within all the noise you may have noticed my sticking up for female rights /equality (not that everyone shouldn’t but it’s a mad world) so my view on anyone embroiled in this by involvement or acceptance is hang em high. Many will unfairly escape by their wealth/status which is more RP’s hobby horse than mine

[swaledale]

My take on all this is, that I believe that at heart Starmer is a decent bloke who is actually doing reasonably well at the job of governing, but is absolutely cr@p at politics and has zero charisma or it seems the ability to manage the presentation such that the good that has been done cuts through to the public.

Everybody knew what an oily disreputable person Mandelson is, he was sacked from two cabinet posts due to his shady dealings FFS! Starmer must have known but took a gamble that appointing him as US Ambassador was a way to at least maintain relations with Trump, but it was IMO a very risky move and has now back fired, Starmer has too take the falck and he should sack Morgan McSweeny his Chief of Staff now, he has to to survive I think and even then his position is much weakened.

Its ironic, that Starmer had the chance and indeed portrayed himself as the "grown up" face of politics, no more pyschodramas, no more sleaze straight forward government, but has almost from the start, ****ed things up, first with the freebies - no they weren't illegal and were declared, but the optics weren't good, then through a series of misteps through introducing policies that hadn't been thought through, resulting in u turns that could and should have been avoided.

Its a shambles on the face of it, that obscures much of the good work that the government has done since being elected. I don't see how Starmer can survive this and frankly perhaps the best course of action would be for him to manage a dignified exit but people rarely put the party and country before their own personal ambition, so we will see.

What the whole Epstein affair demonstrates is how rich and poweeful people simply assume the normal rules of life and respect for others doesn't apply to them. I'd echo AF to th epoint of give them a fair trail then hang them.

[Ram Pant]

Again within all the noise you may have noticed my sticking up for female rights /equality (not that everyone shouldn’t but it’s a mad world) so my view on anyone embroiled in this by involvement or acceptance is hang em high. Many will unfairly escape by their wealth/status which is more RP’s hobby horse than mine

Indeed, I'm one of those who believe that there is but one Law and it applies to everybody in full. Position and wealth shouldn't shield folk. Even more so when the crime is as horrendous as the seks trafficking involved in the Epstein circus.

A US Court ordered full and unredacted release by last December. Roughly half released and heavily redacted. Contempt od Court charges for all responsible. That's the Law, even in Trump's America. Although they do seem to be moving rapidly to Trump's Law aka his mood of the day. He has broken the Constitution, the Law, as have many of his fellow MAGA rulers. Only a handful of people seem to have the guts to stand up to him. Tech companies, Law firms, Universities, broadcasters have all bowed down to the bullying. The sooner he's gone or the midterms take away his power, the better. Better for the USA and better for the world.

[ramAnag]

Again within all the noise you may have noticed my sticking up for female rights /equality (not that everyone shouldn?’t but it?’s a mad world) so my view on anyone embroiled in this by involvement or acceptance is hang em high. Many will unfairly escape by their wealth/status which is more RP?’s hobby horse than mine

Tbh I hadn’t noticed you ‘sticking up for female rights/equality’ any more than the majority on here and I don’t think the ‘wealth/status’ escape route is any more RP’s hobby horse than it is also an issue for the majority who still contribute regular posts on here.

I’m certain you’re right in your description of your own attitudes, but then all you’re really describing is human decency.
We should all be in favour of female rights/equality and we should all stand against those with wealth and relative power - from crooked coppers, head teachers and local politicians to ambassadors and presidents - using their positions to exploit the vulnerable as I’m sure the six (?) remaining regular posters on here would all agree.