v Aberdeen

[bannon_ftd_83]

You know we just beat Celtic right? Should have beat Sevco too, could have beat Hibs and Sheep too. I get we are under achieving but it's not as bad as all that really. A lot to improve on but we've endured much worse in recent times.

There are obviously positives but in our last 14 matches we've won twice. One of them was a draw against St Mirren until we got a pen in the last 5 minutes and they got.a man sent off. You've mentioned the other one, which we could have been dead amd buried by half time. We lack ambition to win games. Ive always been a backer of Goodwin and defended him many times but that comes from him.

[Arabknight]

You know we just beat Celtic right? Should have beat Sevco too, could have beat Hibs and Sheep too. I get we are under achieving but it's not as bad as all that really. A lot to improve on but we've endured much worse in recent times.

Agree with this.

Yes we are not playing well and improvements have to be made. The injuries we have had this season so far have definitely impacted on the way we play.
.

Watters was on fire before his injury, trap was looking like he was up for it, Graham missing has been huge, we are not the same in the middle without Camara and so on.

Also Luca?s suspension was a big blow yesterday too

We have been close to a few decent victories and yes we need to do better to see games out but I think if we can strengthen in jan and get a break on the injury front. We will be ok.

[shedka]

I get the argument about players missing, but in the end we still put out a side that should be performing a lot better than that. Graham has been absent for most of the season now, so it is hardly a new problem.
The bigger issue for me is that we simply cannot play football. We struggle to string two or three passes together, we foul constantly which completely kills any so called counter attacking style, and when we do have the ball there is no desire to switch play or move it quickly. The movement off the ball is poor across the team.
We never look like a side that wants to impose itself on a game. Instead we try to match the opposition and hope to sneak a point or the odd win. There is no ambition to take control or dominate any match.
I am honestly finding it hard to enjoy watching us right now, which feels mad when you consider the players we have, especially Sapsford and Fatah. Something has to change because this approach is going nowhere.

Possession isn't our style, especially on the road so it's not a huge deal, I do agree though that if we move up a bit like at 1-1 we can be more dominant at times, maybe respected them too much but it is a venue we've historically lost at more then anywhere but the bigots

We have lost 5 games after half the season, too many draws but mostly down to goalkeeping errors (Richards has made three in recent games alone) that we aren't top 5 right now (ie we'd be there with Walton in goal) and that's despite terrible luck with injuries for most of the season,

It is very frustrating losing pts you shouldn't have but Imo too much negativity around the place, we finished 4th last season in our first season back, and notoriously tough second season back we are still within range of top six

That's despite the flaws that we have and always will have for the most part given our budget and the market we shop in and we are pretty young

I thought we were very comfortable defensively yesterday, I reckon Iovu has got better in recent weeks, Keresztes is pretty good for the most part, both are still young, Graham in the middle of those two will be decent going forward , big bert is clumsy but he's ok if you keep him on the centre of the three

Naamo impressed me in his starts

Sevelj was excellent in the middle, to have him come in and perform like that in Luca's absence was great

Also means we can rotate on Tues if we want to rest Sibbald for the derby, can go when Sevelj and Luca at Livi

For me we need to do back to our front 3, Sapsford with Dolcek and Fatah, they can interchange and also give Stirton a shot instead of Moller when going to the bench

Also Fatah, what a gem, hopefully can get him permanent but unlikely

[moicher]

I was there. ****e view in a ****e ground.

Wasn't impressed at eh young lads with the drum not respecting their commemoration of those that had died over the last year. We should be better than that.

I dont know whats happened to us, we've got steadily more negative over the season. At the start of the season we were all about superfast counters after hassling the opposition to win possession.

Now we just let the opposition come at us and when we win it there doesn't seem to be much of a plan.

Was very disappointed SCH wasn't given another chance. I dont know what it says when the others can get straight back in the team after underperforming before they went out through injury. Jim keep harping on about pathways but it feels like he is blocking development of Sam and others through unwillingness to drop out-of-form players.

The sight of Kuch warming up before the game gave me the fear and Richards isn't the answer. He's going to make a big error in every game too. In the pre-game warm up he spilled one just like the one is match time.

Aberdeen were very poor but we gave them the ball back time after time. We refuse to close down.

It was a heck of a long day yesterday and there was scant rewards for the fans that travelled up. I agree with Shedka that we could easily be 5th if we'd turned a few of these into wins but it feels to me we are going backwards and winning is not looking that likely..

Possession isn't our style, especially on the road so it's not a huge deal, I do agree though that if we move up a bit like at 1-1 we can be more dominant at times, maybe respected them too much but it is a venue we've historically lost at more then anywhere but the bigots

We have lost 5 games after half the season, too many draws but mostly down to goalkeeping errors (Richards has made three in recent games alone) that we aren't top 5 right now (ie we'd be there with Walton in goal) and that's despite terrible luck with injuries for most of the season,

It is very frustrating losing pts you shouldn't have but Imo too much negativity around the place, we finished 4th last season in our first season back, and notoriously tough second season back we are still within range of top six

That's despite the flaws that we have and always will have for the most part given our budget and the market we shop in and we are pretty young

I thought we were very comfortable defensively yesterday, I reckon Iovu has got better in recent weeks, Keresztes is pretty good for the most part, both are still young, Graham in the middle of those two will be decent going forward , big bert is clumsy but he's ok if you keep him on the centre of the three

Naamo impressed me in his starts

Sevelj was excellent in the middle, to have him come in and perform like that in Luca's absence was great

Also means we can rotate on Tues if we want to rest Sibbald for the derby, can go when Sevelj and Luca at Livi

For me we need to do back to our front 3, Sapsford with Dolcek and Fatah, they can interchange and also give Stirton a shot instead of Moller when going to the bench

Also Fatah, what a gem, hopefully can get him permanent but unlikely

[JUSTaway]

Lovu played well tbf on Saturday, but I have to say I am quite annoyed with the way Goodwin has managed SCH, he hasn't been afforded the same opportunities as the other defenders who have been inconsistent at best, and when forced to play him, he plays well for 45 mins, and Lovu comes straight back into the team, maybe Goodwin is thinking of the games in quick succession, and SCH will get a run out at Livi. But seriously, why are we not developing our own players? Is he too risk averse to blood youngsters? I'm thinking now of Stirton who should be getting some bench time ahead of Moeller. If not, then lets these young guys go on loan, their development is stagnating sitting on the bench doing nothing. I will say about Moeller btw when he came on v Sheep, as ineffective as he was, I actually thought he worked has ass off.

Are we underachieving? My first thought is to say yes, but our goalkeepers might be the worst in the league, or bottom 3 anyway over the season, so add to that the individual mistakes in defence, maybe we aren't underachieving.

My feeling is these next two games will determine the shape of our season, we need two wins if we are serious about looking up the way, otherwise it's likely a 9-7 place finish and keeping an eye on the 11th spot. So far we have done ok against the top 6 sides, but when then faced with two winnable back to back fixtures on the back of these performances have failed miserably, i'm thinking - killie (h) 0-2, Livi (h) 1-1, and then later we had Falkirk (h) 0-3, Killie (a) 1-1. Some dismal performances in there against some toiling sides. Anything other than a win v Livi is a shocker.

We seem to have reverted to last season's style to dig out some defensive solidity, but it seems to have come at the cost of the attack. Camara is ***** to our prospects this season, and hoping our keepers don't gift any goals.

[JUSTaway]

?26 to watch Livi v Utd btw, not cheap to be a football fan at tis time of year with the glut of games and all other non football expenses.

[TerryTheTerror]

I don't think it can be said we are underachieving at all. Since the very start of the season our defending has been diabolical. I actually think the Rapid Vienna matches gave us a false impression of our level. Turns out they aren't very good with them finishing below the sheep at the bottom of the conference league. It was always going to be a monumental task to get these players defending properly and JG is, in my opinion, getting there. Previously we were shipping at least 2 goals a game and that's came down to 1 recently.

It's very hard work being a United fan at the moment.

[JamesMcClean]

I agree with some of the above - if we we seriously want to be pushing to get back in to the top 6, then 6 pts are an absolute must this week. Not 2 draws. Not win and one draw. Two wins and 6 points, nothing less. It’s been a solid enough turn around the last couple of weeks but all it’s been is a base from which to improve from - in no way should it be seen as the template for the rest of the season.

It has been frustrating this year. In many ways we ARE a very good team. We have shown on many occasions to play some bloody good football going forward, way better than last season at times for instance. But we have shot ourselves in the foot far, far, far too many times this season. It’s easy to lay the blame for that on Goodwin - he bought the players and kept playing them for too long, notably Kurechenko of course. And the failure to give SCH and Stirton a fairer crack of the whip is downright criminal IMO given what’s been happening at the back and the ‘efforts’ of Moller from the bench.

However I don’t think we can underestimate the effect of injuries this season - it’s felt like one of the worst ever. I’ll not list them all but there’s been key players who have been out for ages through the season whilst there’s been others who have missed games here and there on a regular basis. The big ‘what if’ of all those has been Pappoe - we have no idea what effect he would have had on the team (particularly with potentially protecting the defence from sitting in front of them) and regretfully we likely never will. In Goodwin’s defence he’s been selecting sides with one hand tied behind his back and that’s the most frustrating thing - I suspect this season is going to be a case of what might have been. However, for all that there is still the small matter of the Scottish Cup coming up………………

[weegiearab]

I think we have to remain realistic...we have replaced an entire team at the start of the season. Some players have stepped up, some appear to have struggled and some are clearly not going to cut it. It was always going to be unlikely that we got it 100% right. I think if we are able to get a couple of players in next month, then we might be not too bad. We should hopefully be battling for a top 6 finish and not in the relegation battle, which I would see as a reasonable return this season.
I think our biggest goal is getting back to being a steady, premier league team and break the Yo- yoing relegation cycle that we found ourselves in. I'm not writing off the season and think we can still push for a European spot..but at the same time, the priority is survival...then top 6. The league is tight and a wee run of wins can push you right up the table!

[shedka]

I don't think it can be said we are underachieving at all. Since the very start of the season our defending has been diabolical. I actually think the Rapid Vienna matches gave us a false impression of our level. Turns out they aren't very good with them finishing below the sheep at the bottom of the conference league. It was always going to be a monumental task to get these players defending properly and JG is, in my opinion, getting there. Previously we were shipping at least 2 goals a game and that's came down to 1 recently.

It's very hard work being a United fan at the moment.

It really isn't, it's frustrating but you have to have short memory to think it's hard work (imo), there have been highs and lows, some cracking games and goals and some 'good' results that were draws too that could have been more

5 defeats at the half way stage of a top flight season, can't take that for granted (we know a few draws into wins is the issue due to individual errors)

I recall in the championship before Ogren took over losing 5 games in January/February alone to the likes of qots, morton and dumbarton

I recall 1998-2006 being in a loop of finishing 9th and 11th nearly every season, losing 18-20 league games each year and minimum 60 goals and following home and away having missed the 80s with overpaid Scottish mercenaries and p1sstakers in the dressing room

I'll never take for granted the current stability we have found the last 2-3 years with a pretty decent manager and looking to consolidate in our second season back in the prem and the way we are competitive with the 5 bigger clubs with a thrown together group of young guys from all over that are giving their best for United (unlike some chancers In the recent and distant past)

[TerryTheTerror]

It really isn't, it's frustrating but you have to have short memory to think it's hard work (imo), there have been highs and lows, some cracking games and goals and some 'good' results that were draws too that could have been more

5 defeats at the half way stage of a top flight season, can't take that for granted (we know a few draws into wins is the issue due to individual errors)

I recall in the championship before Ogren took over losing 5 games in January/February alone to the likes of qots, morton and dumbarton

I recall 1998-2006 being in a loop of finishing 9th and 11th nearly every season, losing 18-20 league games each year and minimum 60 goals and following home and away having missed the 80s with overpaid Scottish mercenaries and p1sstakers in the dressing room

I'll never take for granted the current stability we have found the last 2-3 years with a pretty decent manager and looking to consolidate in our second season back in the prem and the way we are competitive with the 5 bigger clubs with a thrown together group of young guys from all over that are giving their best for United (unlike some chancers In the recent and distant past)

Sadly, my memory is just fine. It's likely to do with my age and the fact I've taken up power chair football (for Dundee United ) over the last couple of years meaning watching United is slipping in my priority list somewhat.

[Arabs4ever]

I'll never take for granted the current stability we have found the last 2-3 years with a pretty decent manager and looking to consolidate in our second season back in the prem and the way we are competitive with the 5 bigger clubs with a thrown together group of young guys from all over that are giving their best for United (unlike some chancers In the recent and distant past)[/QUOTE]

Decent manager? Maybe at the start of this season. However imo he has been too loyal to players who have been given starts and been terribly out of form. He signed both keepers. 343 all the time nearly. I'd like a full-back on either side with two central defenders but no it is 343 with the two midfielders centrally out muscled. As a spectacle from open play we are null and void.

"Thrown together group of young boys from all over that are giving their best for United" Well if your a Scottish young boy your phucked because our esteemed manager prefers foreigners.

Hopefully a mutual parting of the ways is coming at the end of the season. With the goalie coach and the sport science team getting emptied as well.

[shedka]

Decent manager? Maybe at the start of this season. However imo he has been too loyal to players who have been given starts and been terribly out of form. He signed both keepers. 343 all the time nearly. I'd like a full-back on either side with two central defenders but no it is 343 with the two midfielders centrally out muscled. As a spectacle from open play we are null and void.

"Thrown together group of young boys from all over that are giving their best for United" Well if your a Scottish young boy your phucked because our esteemed manager prefers foreigners.

Hopefully a mutual parting of the ways is coming at the end of the season. With the goalie coach and the sport science team getting emptied as well.

He's given Stirton and SCH game time, just not as much as you want them to have, I agree Stirton should get time over Moller though

Hopefully not, there is no need for a parting of ways, ridiculous.

[Stoke_Arab]

I'll never take for granted the current stability we have found the last 2-3 years with a pretty decent manager and looking to consolidate in our second season back in the prem and the way we are competitive with the 5 bigger clubs with a thrown together group of young guys from all over that are giving their best for United (unlike some chancers In the recent and distant past)

Decent manager? Maybe at the start of this season. However imo he has been too loyal to players who have been given starts and been terribly out of form. He signed both keepers. 343 all the time nearly. I'd like a full-back on either side with two central defenders but no it is 343 with the two midfielders centrally out muscled. As a spectacle from open play we are null and void.

"Thrown together group of young boys from all over that are giving their best for United" Well if your a Scottish young boy your phucked because our esteemed manager prefers foreigners.

Hopefully a mutual parting of the ways is coming at the end of the season. With the goalie coach and the sport science team getting emptied as well.[/QUOTE]

Edit, don't know how that happened, here's my post.....

As I said previously my position is that JG has credit in the bank and we need continuity. Second season syndrome is in full swing.

However, that doesn't stop me being absolutely scunnered with the way he's setting us up, the tactics and quality of football (mostly) is a skip fire.

When Iovu Keresztes and Bert were all over the shop and conceding goals for fun we were calling for Graham and SCH to get their chance but no, no, no.

Then through necessity Sam gets his chance v Hibs and looks like son of Narey. Then the next game he's dropped.

The biggest crime for me is that he's deploying a 343 which can be a thing of beauty if done right but his version of 343 is play a tall haddie up front and punt the ball up to him in the hope we get something off the second ball. It's anti football. Same with all these long throws.
If we lose tomorrow night and the Fun manage a victory the league table will start to look very uncomfortable.

If Camara is back I'll have more confidence, we look a different side when he plays. Would like to see us replace Pappoe in the window but the anti football tactics suggest the thinking is we dont need to.

#free the Haddie 2

[JUSTaway]

He's given Stirton and SCH game time, just not as much as you want them to have, I agree Stirton should get time over Moller though

Hopefully not, there is no need for a parting of ways, ridiculous.

SCH has been given 45 mins, as there was literally no else left to put in defence. It's been criminal for their development, punt him and stirton on loan if you have no intention of using them. It just sends out the complete wrong messages to young players and about competition for places being on merit. I find it very frustrating, these guys could be developing elsewhere and at least be useful to a future utd manager down the line.