For Mrs O

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Hey Mrs O

More concise thoughts re getting too and from the ground.

Unless you can get there two hours before and leave an hour afterwards driving to the ground from anywhere north of it tends to be a nightmare with most people parking where they can in the streets around Lowfiekds etc.

Public transport to the ground is hopeless which then leaves taxi or walking options.

I imagine a significant chunk of the fan base walks from the city centre. I tend to park if I am driving as close to the station as 8 can and walk from there.

It goes past the new Wellington Place development, over the dual carriageway and then past Greggs (had to get that in) and the long walk down lowfields road.

On a Saturday or early Sunday kickoff when there is less time pressure that is fine.

For midweek games it can be a pain.

Leaving the ground tends to be harder and you have more people trying to leave in a shorter window.

If you have driven to the ground it can take a good 30 minutes to get out of the side streets.

If you are walking back then following the route you came in by is heaving so people tend to hook a right and go through the residential area once over the dual carriageway.

If you don’t know that route well it’s easy to get lost and end up in some side street - you see lost souls all the time. It’s also a lot longer to the city centre for most people.

You won’t find any info as far as I am aware on the walking routes.

The quicker the Holbeck Viaduct project gets off the ground the better and that would be a dedicated walkway back without having to navigate roads and directions.

It would still leave the problem of getting to it from the ground but that would be far better imho.

Not sure if the club could incentivise people to stay at the ground later (hard with late kickoffs)

The most immediate thing to do would be to provide better more accessible info on routes to take - especially for those who are not regulars but are buying hospitality packages.

Great ground but hard to drive to and from to compared to many others. I like walking hence what I said above but that could be made so much better.

Let me know if that was what you were looking for.

[MrsORichSenior_]

perfect Hopey.
alongside helping the clubs pl report it will also be sent for the likes of elected Headingley councillor Jonathan Pryor the Deputy Leader of LCC and member for Economy, Transport and Sustainable Development who is a key regarding the ER redevelopment, its economic impact and the surrounding infrastructure of it. also ideal fao Angela Barnicle at City Development for her LCC remit for overseeing all regeneration work, planning and asset management.

a good soundbite for the eyes of LCC Council Highways department as well who are currently taking on board extensive discussions regarding traffic, logistics and Section 106 agreements for that areas specific transport infrastructure presently and for the future.
a great idea you mentioned to place simple signs for city centre directions outside ground which also is certainly not great for safe parking presently particularly women with young kids in tow around LS11 on match day.
i will also add it into the LUFC mail bag for their Fan Engagement team observation and will certainly give the clubs Supporters Advisory Board focus to articulate their concerns on.

thank you for your time and valued observations.

must be over 10000 steps for the 8km walk from city station to ER and back so I hope you had decent trainers on.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

No worries at all and thankfully I like walking and try to average 12 per day 😎

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

That should have been 12k!!!!

[spaldy]

I am watching this develop from afar so I have no first hand knowledge.

However, one thing that's obvious in almost any big club in any big sport is that developing venues as a centerpiece of a city tends to really work out well for the club as well as city. It attracts other ventures, businesses, customers and most important interest which is not easy to do in a world with so many other options for people's time and money.

Leeds is even more of a natural to do this since they are one of the few big cities that only has one club.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I am watching this develop from afar so I have no first hand knowledge.

However, one thing that's obvious in almost any big club in any big sport is that developing venues as a centerpiece of a city tends to really work out well for the club as well as city. It attracts other ventures, businesses, customers and most important interest which is not easy to do in a world with so many other options for people's time and money.

Leeds is even more of a natural to do this since they are one of the few big cities that only has one club.

Hey Spaldy

Part of the charm of WR is its remote location - it’s one of the first landmarks you see too if you come into Leeds by train.

However, from a connection to the city centre is not great not sure what it’s PTAL rating is (UK measure of transport and accessibility) but suspect it is low.

Have a look out for the Holborn Viaduct project - if that can be delivered it would be huge for the club but massive for the local community.

It’s fair to say that LS11 isn’t the fanciest of LS addresses and so has been under loved in terms of connections for years. It tend to have light industrial, car show rooms and logistics as it’s all close to motorway networks the M621 being very close to the ground.

That said in the 1960s we used to get over 60k in the ground so anything g is possible.

[MrsORichSenior_]

thank goodness there is only one ER after reading about the Spanish football fan who was expecting to watch Barcelona play in the Uefa Champions League who was left gutted and embarrassed after finding himself at the stadium for L1 club Exeter City.
Exeter said the supporter travelled from London only to arrive at the wrong St James Park in Exeter Devon on Tuesday evening rather than St James Park in Newcastle. the club said it was only when he showed his ticket to staff he realised the error, instead the club gave him a free ticket to Exeter L1 tie against Lincoln City.

apparently the mans English was not great but Exeter officials gathered that he had travelled from London and had put St James Park onto in his phone and followed the directions from there, so they kindly sorted him out a ticket and he got to watch a game at the classier St James Park and said the man was welcome back anytime. Exeter lost one nil.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

thank goodness there is only one ER after reading about the Spanish football fan who was expecting to watch Barcelona play in the Uefa Champions League who was left gutted and embarrassed after finding himself at the stadium for L1 club Exeter City.
Exeter said the supporter travelled from London only to arrive at the wrong St James Park in Exeter Devon on Tuesday evening rather than St James Park in Newcastle. the club said it was only when he showed his ticket to staff he realised the error, instead the club gave him a free ticket to Exeter L1 tie against Lincoln City.

apparently the mans English was not great but Exeter officials gathered that he had travelled from London and had put St James Park onto in his phone and followed the directions from there, so they kindly sorted him out a ticket and he got to watch a game at the classier St James Park and said the man was welcome back anytime. Exeter lost one nil.

MOT

Yikes !! Though fair play to Exeter

[spaldy]

wonder if he saw a better game?

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Mrs O - there is a square ball podcast this week where in a section of it they talk about getting to and from the ground. Some interesting things said and a lot resonating with some of the comments I made. Well worth a listen and maybe citing some of it.

They have a small pop at LCC highways too.

[MrsORichSenior_]

Mrs O - there is a square ball podcast this week where in a section of it they talk about getting to and from the ground. Some interesting things said and a lot resonating with some of the comments I made. Well worth a listen and maybe citing some of it.

They have a small pop at LCC highways too.

thanks for that Hopey, never caught that one through the grapevine.

as club director Pete Lowy stated last week if only the political leaders could put the infrastructure of a mass transit system in place it would trigger between 1bn and 2bn of private investment to redevelop the land around Elland Road to include 2,000 new homes with new leisure, retail and office space as well.

problem is trying to satify everyone in vicinity of A6110 Ring Road, and A643 Elland Road now and in the future.
the current key routes into Leeds connecting south Leeds to the city centre are a popular route with over 38,000 people using it daily presently and matchdays bringing even more chaotic congestion.
the proposed scheme aims to address all longstanding issues along the route including its high collision rates, congestion, the limited pedestrian and cycling infrastructure and poor connectivity to surrounding areas.
i am informed LCC is still inviting businesses, residents and those who use the routes to share their views on the current proposals planned that also have to integrate into the broader remit goals of reducing carbon emissions, promoting active travel and supporting Vision Zero aims.

as ever the complexity and dynamic cross disciplinary nature of the proposed improvement proposals involves partnerships working with both regional and national stakeholder engagement assessments that do not always gel smoothly together, suppose thats the challenge of broadening ones horizons or as the French would say its all typical of English rosbif organisation.

unlike other major European clubs, most French Ligue 1 teams do not own their stadiums or operate them exclusively and in the majority of cases, the stadium is owned by the local authority which manages its operation through a variety of management methods so infrastructure is always well managed regarding stadia surrounds.

personally for a club of our size we need to be able to get people there quickly, easily and have them spend time there within facilities to accommodate all tastes so yes we do need a system where we can move people in and out simply and efficiently and safely before games and after games with hubs for hospitality offering choice.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

thanks for that Hopey, never caught that one through the grapevine.

as club director Pete Lowy stated last week if only the political leaders could put the infrastructure of a mass transit system in place it would trigger between 1bn and 2bn of private investment to redevelop the land around Elland Road to include 2,000 new homes with new leisure, retail and office space as well.

problem is trying to satify everyone in vicinity of A6110 Ring Road, and A643 Elland Road now and in the future.
the current key routes into Leeds connecting south Leeds to the city centre are a popular route with over 38,000 people using it daily presently and matchdays bringing even more chaotic congestion.
the proposed scheme aims to address all longstanding issues along the route including its high collision rates, congestion, the limited pedestrian and cycling infrastructure and poor connectivity to surrounding areas.
i am informed LCC is still inviting businesses, residents and those who use the routes to share their views on the current proposals planned that also have to integrate into the broader remit goals of reducing carbon emissions, promoting active travel and supporting Vision Zero aims.

as ever the complexity and dynamic cross disciplinary nature of the proposed improvement proposals involves partnerships working with both regional and national stakeholder engagement assessments that do not always gel smoothly together, suppose thats the challenge of broadening ones horizons or as the French would say its all typical of English rosbif organisation.

unlike other major European clubs, most French Ligue 1 teams do not own their stadiums or operate them exclusively and in the majority of cases, the stadium is owned by the local authority which manages its operation through a variety of management methods so infrastructure is always well managed regarding stadia surrounds.

personally for a club of our size we need to be able to get people there quickly, easily and have them spend time there within facilities to accommodate all tastes so yes we do need a system where we can move people in and out simply and efficiently and safely before games and after games with hubs for hospitality offering choice.

MOT

No worries - club and LCC should just support and deliver the Holborn viaduct project would be huge for the fans and locals

[WTF11]

FWIW, I suspect that nothing of any substance will develop regarding future access (via whatever means) to and from ER.

Why?

Take something HO said;

“Part of the charm of WR is its remote location – it’s one of the first landmarks you see too if you come into Leeds by train”. True, and I’d add that coming by motorway from the south has similar “benefits” by way of appearance, but….

It’s remoteness is (part) of its problem.

There are other observations about the area it sits in, being “unloved” in the modern-day parlance. Again, true. Before Leeds United became that entity, playing their games at ER, their predecessor Leeds City were a peripatetic club, playing just about wherever they could find a large enough open space.

The first game at ER played by the newly established Leeds United was a friendly on the 15th of November 1919.

My point here is that at that time, and for a LONG time afterwards, the area around ER was distinctly working class, hard-working, industrious, and appreciative (along with a large part of the wider Leeds population who were also largely working class) of the presence of a football league club in their city. Now, as others have said, the area is run down, a less than attractive mix of empty industrial units, car showrooms, dilapidated residential rentals etc, with the new West Yorkshire Constabulary building being a marked exception to the norm!

It's not an area that boasts “kerb appeal” to investors of the civic great and good, as (fairly) recent past history would suggest.

There have been several mentions of the Holbeck Viaduct project. This won’t happen, now or in the future. Why?
The project delivering an open day was “hoped for” for 2023. Clearly that didn’t happen. The “project” is a mish mash of well-intentioned amateurs, small businesses that see the advantage (just) to them, voluntary organisations with no real “clout”, etc. There is no executive sponsor, no civic involvement of any significance, and the major beneficiary, as HO has suggested, is Leeds United, who have shown zero interest in becoming involved (now or in the past).

Of as significant an issue as the project organisation (or lack of), are the major obstacles presented by the physical nature of the viaduct (stress on the word, “Viaduct”). It runs some 50 – 60 feet in the air, and the graphics produced by the project illustrate the issue of step free access very clearly (if inadvertently). Holbeck Viaduct is a very different proposition to the The Monk Bridge Viaduct which delivered a “park-like environment” with good access and well-landscaped grounds, developed from a disused Victorian railway bridge. Importantly in the context of ER, it was developed with no significant role as a pedestrian route envisaged. Presumably this is at least in part responsible for the lack of engagement in the project by LUFC

It may be that .councillor Pryor & Angela Barnicle at City Development will express genuine, if guarded interest in what might be done to alleviate the inevitable challenges of stadium access, but I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

I suspect that LCC Highways, whilst voicing support for the ER redevelopment, are arming themselves with all the counter arguments that are likely to be required when reality meets the paper version.

Back to ERs location, and the difficulty it presents as a site for redevelopment were UFC to find a suitable site elsewhere. Unlike most of the clubs who have relocated to pastures new and financing a significant proportion of the development costs by selling prime residential/retail real estate, LUFC has something of a millstone to deal with. Take a drones eye view of the stadium and its surrounds and ask yourself, would you want to put your money into making it an attractive place to live/work/play?

PS, Reference to mass transit in Mrs Os most recent post?

As someone who has worked closely with the likes of TFL (London) and TfGM) Manchester, the likelihood of “the political leaders (putting) the infrastructure of a mass transit system in place” is cloud cuckoo land. Since the tram network was removed, Leeds has no background of ever having done even a feasibility study of the implementation of a mass transit system similar to that in Manchester, and the situation in London is of far greater magnitude and complexity. Even the very “simple” tram system in Croydon took decades to plan and implement. If Mr Lowy made that statement with a serious expectation that it would stir up some kind of progress, he is delusional.