Good window or bad

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Todays top level football focus is on athletic players & structured systems combined with increased defensive responsibility for 'all player.

Defo made the game less suited to the traditional, unpredictable style of a flair player, for sure - so no argument.

The pitch is no longer a 'show-ground' either but rather now a 'battleground' where speed, stamina & strength are as crucial as a well executed nutmeg. Sadly, as such skills today are often frowned upon as show boating inside pro circles rightly or wrongly, I understand.

Summerville & Rutter where improved via hard working coaches at TA too under DF stewardship to which the club benefited financially may I suggest too.

When DF gave Joseph a run, most on here slated his performances weekly, I recall, not me as I understood a players learning curves take time, even at Championship level.

But ultimately Joseph did not help his cause this summer either when he described Leeds as 'not the prettiest place' after his loan move to sunny Mallorca, which certainly didnt go down well in Leeds, a city painted with many murals in hommage to our clubs heros.

Recently we sold Greenwood who Marcelo worked into a decent young player, regardless he got slated on here too, I recall.

In conclusion what could DF do, play Joseph as our 9 to get slated again ?
Play Greenwood as a 10 ?
Now does he drop Dan James, already struggling for PL form & now on an improved contract ?
Or give Archie more cameo roles then flog him when you know who comes sniffing ?

Just think we have gotta get real to what is needed presently, imo.

As WS clearly states we are building a survival team & hopefully can take it further from there but it will be on a tight budget were results are still gonna matter 'tho.
Alternative is the free flowing-football that got us where exactly under Marcello ultimately who was also under similar financial restraints during his reign as your mate DF, H.

Just saying

I understand all of that MT but so many aspects of Farke annoy me not least the way he treats younger players which he has done at other clubs too. Been around too many coaches like that on both sides of the white wash to like that sort of behaviour.

But for injuries Rothwell would not have got much of any game time. Also accept his record last year in the champo was fantastic which I acknowledged at the time.

We have a decent academy and just didn’t think he gets the most out of it.

For all that I hope he does well for us I just fear he won’t and for sure he is better than the nadir of the Watermelon or yeeee Ha.

[ozleeds]

I understand all of that MT but so many aspects of Farke annoy me not least the way he treats younger players which he has done at other clubs too. Been around too many coaches like that on both sides of the white wash to like that sort of behaviour.

But for injuries Rothwell would not have got much of any game time. Also accept his record last year in the champo was fantastic which I acknowledged at the time.

We have a decent academy and just didn?’t think he gets the most out of it.

For all that I hope he does well for us I just fear he won?’t and for sure he is better than the nadir of the Watermelon or yeeee Ha.

Bet you gray is not in his books now

[spaldy]

Gray is learning well along with Cresswell. Playing U21 and occassionally getting on the bench on the prem squad and getting a minute of mop up duty. When the big clubs come knocking we'll be able to tell them that think of how much we've "developed" them while some of their age group has moved to first team football and even moved on to bigger clubs.

We just remind them that they should be glad to be part of Leeds. That's a winning strategy.

Farke's strategy of play time would work much better at Citeh, Bayern or Arsenal. it doesn't work in today's football world only the biggest, most funded clubs can afford to go out and buy the best players.

[Monaco_Totty]

Flair in football refers to a players natural talent for creative, their unexpected actions such as lflamboyant dribbles, unpredictable passes & audacious shots, the pro boffins once stated.

Flair youth players we have developed of late then only Fabian Delph & Alex Mowatt springs to my mind, as does Ronaldo Vieira who left Leeds for 7m in 2018 after a promising spell at ER after 2 seasons as a first-team player after making his debut at 18 & now playing in America for San Jose Earthquakes, his brother Romero Vieira also at Leeds, now plays part-time after much hyped early flair frutition.

So pure flair aint the PL dish for our academy products it would appear ?

Lewis Cooke at Bournemouth currently injured again, was deemed a PL success level although he cannot be classed as a flair-player.
Only Archie springs to mind as kinda of PL 'flair class' otherwise were looking way back to Milner, 'tho steady in style is certainly not a flair player but still playing PL at BHA.

Looking further back at any academy candidates making PL, all be it having injury issues there is Aaron Lennon, David Batty, Alan Smith, Jonathan Woodgate, Gary Speed, Charlie Taylor & keeper Scott Carson could be classed as successful graduates coached by a plethora of Leeds coaches, but maverick flair material category ?

In conclusion today we have more tactical, system driven football which includes the development of players in youth academies with the primary focus on running stats, data, & coaching demands for conformity into creating rigid game plans.

Youth players are often discouraged from showing too much 'individual-flair' or taking risks nowadays as such liberal expression can lead to suspicion & rejection within the current football system where players are seen as part of a larger mechanism rather than independent individuals, far too often.
From a keeper perspective low risk became key during plays of those in front of one which only crept in during the latter days of my brothers youth career.

Not a great outlook but my own brother came through club & International team youth academies to which systems I have knowledge of & at 21 its certainly 'tough' breaking through into a first team starting eleven when more experienced players are bought in ahead of you.

Just saying

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Flair in football refers to a players natural talent for creative, their unexpected actions such as lflamboyant dribbles, unpredictable passes & audacious shots, the pro boffins once stated.

Flair youth players we have developed of late then only Fabian Delph & Alex Mowatt springs to my mind, as does Ronaldo Vieira who left Leeds for 7m in 2018 after a promising spell at ER after 2 seasons as a first-team player after making his debut at 18 & now playing in America for San Jose Earthquakes, his brother Romero Vieira also at Leeds, now plays part-time after much hyped early flair frutition.

So pure flair aint the PL dish for our academy products it would appear ?

Lewis Cooke at Bournemouth currently injured again, was deemed a PL success level although he cannot be classed as a flair-player.
Only Archie springs to mind as kinda of PL 'flair class' otherwise were looking way back to Milner, 'tho steady in style is certainly not a flair player but still playing PL at BHA.

Looking further back at any academy candidates making PL, all be it having injury issues there is Aaron Lennon, David Batty, Alan Smith, Jonathan Woodgate, Gary Speed, Charlie Taylor & keeper Scott Carson could be classed as successful graduates coached by a plethora of Leeds coaches, but maverick flair material category ?

In conclusion today we have more tactical, system driven football which includes the development of players in youth academies with the primary focus on running stats, data, & coaching demands for conformity into creating rigid game plans.

Youth players are often discouraged from showing too much 'individual-flair' or taking risks nowadays as such liberal expression can lead to suspicion & rejection within the current football system where players are seen as part of a larger mechanism rather than independent individuals, far too often.
From a keeper perspective low risk became key during plays of those in front of one which only crept in during the latter days of my brothers youth career.

Not a great outlook but my own brother came through club & International team youth academies to which systems I have knowledge of & at 21 its certainly 'tough' breaking through into a first team starting eleven when more experienced players are bought in ahead of you.

Just saying

Not sure would descibe Delph as a flair player but rather a top top level player as per Lewis Cook.

Summerville came through the u21s as did Joffy accepting we signed both from elsewhere.

Archie Gray has flair - that shoulder drop is out of his great uncle’s locker, Chambers, Harry Gray, kid that went to Citeh, Jack Clarke, Bogusz would all count as flair players who came through the ranks at some point.

To say flair players don’t have a place in the PL seems wide of the mark - Eze, Odegard, Cunha, Paqueta, Sallah, Bruno (he has a bit of everything), Wirtz, Semenyo - and many many more.

Seems we have a different view of flair. 😎

[spaldy]

I believe Grealish also would be deemed a flair player. Came through Villas academy and was playing first team football early.

[whitestomper45]

Not sure would descibe Delph as a flair player but rather a top top level player as per Lewis Cook.

Summerville came through the u21s as did Joffy accepting we signed both from elsewhere.

Archie Gray has flair - that shoulder drop is out of his great uncle’s locker, Chambers, Harry Gray, kid that went to Citeh, Jack Clarke, Bogusz would all count as flair players who came through the ranks at some point.

To say flair players don’t have a place in the PL seems wide of the mark - Eze, Odegard, Cunha, Paqueta, Sallah, Bruno (he has a bit of everything), Wirtz, Semenyo - and many many more.

Seems we have a different view of flair. 😎

You can?t compare the influence Eze or Odegard et Al has on a game compared to likes of Joffy or Rama they both drop in out depending on the day

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

You can?t compare the influence Eze or Odegard et Al has on a game compared to likes of Joffy or Rama they both drop in out depending on the day

Not comparing was pointing out there are flair players in the PL today and lots of them as it seemed to be suggested there are few if any flair players in the PL these days.

Joffy and Rama are equally flair players just no where near as good as the aforementioned players.

Point being would rather watch a Rafa once than a Jack Harrison 30 times 😎

[Monaco_Totty]

Not sure would descibe Delph as a flair player but rather a top top level player as per Lewis Cook.

Summerville came through the u21s as did Joffy accepting we signed both from elsewhere.

Archie Gray has flair - that shoulder drop is out of his great uncle’s locker, Chambers, Harry Gray, kid that went to Citeh, Jack Clarke, Bogusz would all count as flair players who came through the ranks at some point.

To say flair players don’t have a place in the PL seems wide of the mark - Eze, Odegard, Cunha, Paqueta, Sallah, Bruno (he has a bit of everything), Wirtz, Semenyo - and many many more.

Seems we have a different view of flair. 😎

All players you mentioned play levels well above what we have & come at a premium too, H. 😊

'Flair' in my eyes are free spirited players with maverick skills, something that most players today have knocked out of their lockers, imo.

Arsenal ?
Would say Eze has his merits but Gabriel Martinelli possesses more subtle real flair than the Eze direct approach, imo.
Gabriel Jesus possess more skills than both, imo, with his special ability to produce moments of individual brilliance at whim when fit, problem is fitting him into team patterns & possibly why the Gunners raided Palace for Eze.

Salah for sure has an understanding of technical- tactical patterns of play, but hes used predominently for his movements to create space & to connect 'onto plays' within Pools high narrow press. More of an intelligent player, imo, rather than a free spirited maverick flair player who has freedom to perform.

Trouble is often those kinda maverick players are hard to manage & often lack the discipline off field too.
So as such can be deemed risque inclusions into squads, rightly or wrongly.
Hamer at Sheffield sits in that category for me, currently.

As for Delph, H, injuries aside, he had loads in his locker all over the pitch & had a confident range of sublime passing skills too but was shackled more often than not into using his defensive skills-sets for the teams he represented, a shame that injury blunted parts of his game too soon in his career, imo.

My Dads laughing looking at this thread & stating Giles, Currie, Stan Bowles & Rodney Marsh would be on the bench nowadays too, as todays tactics could not accomodate their genius & unique brains along with our iconic genius Scott Sellars apparently too.

All opinions, 'tho, whatever generation we yield from, H. 🤗

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

All players you mentioned play levels well above what we have & come at a premium too, H. 😊

'Flair' in my eyes are free spirited players with maverick skills, something that most players today have knocked out of their lockers, imo.

Arsenal ?
Would say Eze has his merits but Gabriel Martinelli possesses more subtle real flair than the Eze direct approach, imo.
Gabriel Jesus possess more skills than both, imo, with his special ability to produce moments of individual brilliance at whim when fit, problem is fitting him into team patterns & possibly why the Gunners raided Palace for Eze.

Salah for sure has an understanding of technical- tactical patterns of play, but hes used predominently for his movements to create space & to connect 'onto plays' within Pools high narrow press. More of an intelligent player, imo, rather than a free spirited maverick flair player who has freedom to perform.

Trouble is often those kinda maverick players are hard to manage & often lack the discipline off field too.
So as such can be deemed risque inclusions into squads, rightly or wrongly.
Hamer at Sheffield sits in that category for me, currently.

As for Delph, H, injuries aside, he had loads in his locker all over the pitch & had a confident range of sublime passing skills too but was shackled more often than not into using his defensive skills-sets for the teams he represented, a shame that injury blunted parts of his game too soon in his career, imo.

My Dads laughing looking at this thread & stating Giles, Currie, Stan Bowles & Rodney Marsh would be on the bench nowadays too, as todays tactics could not accomodate their genius & unique brains along with our iconic genius Scott Sellars apparently too.

All opinions, 'tho, whatever generation we yield from, H. 🤗

Somewhat missing the point - I wasn’t saying we had high quality flair players but those we have/had tend to get overlooked in the risk free system we play. Ramazani is a player that gets the crowd anticipating what they will do.

Most other teams have players like that or take risks - we rarely hit killer passes - Man U v Arsenal were hitting 50 to 60 yard cross field balls for Mbueno - Farke would have had a coronary.

Impossible to compare players from eras but top players would have found away to make it verbally.Giles I suspect would have made it in any era.

You are assuming that my reference to flair is to mavericks which is not the case - not one of the players I mentioned wasn’t also a team player - Raphinha worked his socks off and still does but is the best Leeds player we’ve had in decades - the way he turned Cahill inside out and upside down still makes me smile. There is no reason why flair and team ethic have to be mutually exclusive - Messi or Ronaldo?

I agree that delph was incredible but a flair player unless flair is banging them in from 40 yards is flair.

I suspect you fully understand the point being made but are trying to defend Farke.

[Billyni]

Ramazani was a game changer and goal threat.
Sure he only brought him on when we were behind anyway so what the fk would he be needing to defend for.

[norfolk white]

Think it’s fair to say we all disagree with ramazani going.

[Monaco_Totty]

Ramazani is a player that gets the crowd anticipating what they will do.

I suspect you fully understand the point being made but are trying to defend Farke.

I am defending Farke, always did from when the club made his appointment.

Does not mean I agree with all his tactical decisions, 'tho. But some players were not good enough & were happy to take their wedge regardless - as is their contractual right. Some moved on & some stayed put & some needed a shove.

Championship is not PL & both divisions do not accomodate maverick style free spirited types of player as its a results biz that runs on financial losses for most clubs so is coached within the bounds of low risk plays nowadays hence DF style of football you detest in truth.
My call was & is that DF has no other option as he carries the club on his shoulders via decisions of others ultimately defining his pack of cards, ok.

He plays that hand given to obtain results which you acknowledged he had done but not to your required style as a fan, which is fine by me. I also think he is genuine at his presser & openly honest too, despite the fact he aint gonna go into details about issues behind the scenes via detail - which is a credit to him & his profession, imo.

Small squads or large squads we need to keep our PL status end of by any way poss & he appears to have yet again a tightknit squad now unlike the summer.
A prior thread on here asked once 'how many additions we required if promoted' - I said 10/11 minimum & no champagne charlies plus a clear out too in a reply.

I of course wanna see a playmaker conjure up sublime skills too but am a realist & accept low risk football for now.
Burnley survived PL playing that way before going down the more attractive genre of the game with disastrous results but we are better than that, sorry Alf. But we are still presently at early doors stage squad wise. Villa served as a sleeping giant too, woke up but not so rosey again presently please note.

Possibly physical battles require low risk football & those battles, imo, require low risk football from Leeds Utd players presently as every match is gonna be a battle. But we do have the tools to now unlock games too of which should give us some hope of PL survival albeit done in survival mode football with a hint of panache now & again, H. 🤞

The Fulham forums are not relishing our visit so you wanna ask yourself why ?

I suspect they are anticipating a real battle.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I am defending Farke, always did from when the club made his appointment.

Does not mean I agree with all his tactical decisions, 'tho. But some players were not good enough & were happy to take their wedge regardless - as is their contractual right. Some moved on & some stayed put & some needed a shove.

Championship is not PL & both divisions do not accomodate maverick style free spirited types of player as its a results biz that runs on financial losses for most clubs so is coached within the bounds of low risk plays nowadays hence DF style of football you detest in truth.
My call was & is that DF has no other option as he carries the club on his shoulders via decisions of others ultimately defining his pack of cards, ok.

He plays that hand given to obtain results which you acknowledged he had done but not to your required style as a fan, which is fine by me. I also think he is genuine at his presser & openly honest too, despite the fact he aint gonna go into details about issues behind the scenes via detail - which is a credit to him & his profession, imo.

Small squads or large squads we need to keep our PL status end of by any way poss & he appears to have yet again a tightknit squad now unlike the summer.
A prior thread on here asked once 'how many additions we required if promoted' - I said 10/11 minimum & no champagne charlies plus a clear out too in a reply.

I of course wanna see a playmaker conjure up sublime skills too but am a realist & accept low risk football for now.
Burnley survived PL playing that way before going down the more attractive genre of the game with disastrous results but we are better than that, sorry Alf. But we are still presently at early doors stage squad wise. Villa served as a sleeping giant too, woke up but not so rosey again presently please note.

Possibly physical battles require low risk football & those battles, imo, require low risk football from Leeds Utd players presently as every match is gonna be a battle. But we do have the tools to now unlock games too of which should give us some hope of PL survival albeit done in survival mode football with a hint of panache now & again, H. 🤞

The Fulham forums are not relishing our visit so you wanna ask yourself why ?

I suspect they are anticipating a real battle.

Again I didn?t say we don?t have a chance against Fulham - see the next 6 games thread - different point shooting at kites that are not being flown to misquote the bard!

[spaldy]

Interesting thread

My 2 cents

I like direct. I recall Raph using that approach quite often. Great flair but pretty direct. He scored often. I think Rama had some of those traits. Didn?t matter since he was not given a chance by coach. I think Citeh has a long haired striker that is also very direct.

Fulham won?t be a nil nil draw so if we don?t score we get no points. Not real complicated

I suspect we?ll find out quickly why Farke can?t cut it in the prem. A rigid controlled approach to game management does not work well against the talent and coaching skill that?s present. He has the talent to stay up