New Signings

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

players need to be physically and tactically equipped to handle different roles and systems...... but not all players possess this versatility....... some may say fewer changes lead to more consistent performances..... fine line squad rotation..... yes it is important to keep players fit...... but making too many changes can mess with team chemistry.....
maybe we have to many like for like and not enough variables to throw into the mix ?

we have the joint 14th youngest age squad in this seasons Premier League....... at 26.4 average age.
squad size 26...of which Farke has played 21 players so far.

youngest squad is Chelsea......average age is 23.4
squad size 31...... of which Maresca has played 26 players so far..... even he is bristling at suggestions that his future is under scrutiny right now....and many on here moaned about Bielsa only having a small squad of 18............

the maximum size for a Premier League senior squad is 25 players...... with no more than 17 players not classified as a homegrown player........ but clubs can submit an unlimited number of players under the age of 21.....who do not count towards this 25 player limit.... so they can be registered as well.




as for young players been given a chance......
only 188 minutes for 19.5 year old Archie this season playing 4 competitions....... consisting of 72 cameo minutes in PL...... 8 minutes in 1 CL appearance......18 minutes in UEFA Super cup.....and a full 90 minutes run out in EFL cup....... playing right side midfield against Doncaster Rovers......wonder if he is happy ?

Gnonto 107 apperances for Leeds and 19 goals at 21 years old..... played 24 Premier League appearance in 22/23 and 2 more this season to date....... with 79 in Champions plus a few grumbles along the way as well.

MOT

Those stats don’t really address the point being made about two specific players nor the general observation over the last 2 and a bit season as to how Farke rotates squads.

Bijol has had zero PL minutes and he was supposed to be our marquee signing. That is perplexing. Tanaka has fared a bit better but tends to come on as a very late sub - there is no suggestion he isn’t good enough. The game v Fulham which I was at was crying out for him to come on for Stach after 60 mins as Stach was out on his feet. It didn’t happened.

We hay have used 21 players but the stats you produced don’t show how many minutes or what time they can on.

Not saying Farke is an awful coach but subs and squad rotation has been a consistent weakness - if Gruev and Ampadu hadn’t got injured Tanaka (and Rothwell) would never have got anywhere near the time they did last year and deserved to have.

The list of players grumbling about it continues to grow at Leeds and he has had it elsewhere too.

Crew made zero minutes last season before his loan to Rovers - he is clearly good enough. Gray has made zero minutes this season. He is the age where 5 minutes here and there gives him a taste and is good for development.

Giving players like Tanaka, Gnonto (when fit) or Justin 5 to 15 minutes here and there is neither good generally for squad harmony and if injuries occur and they are needed it means they are not match fit.

Farke is not a top tier elite manager so will have flaws and this seems to be one of them.

[norfolk white]

Chopppng and changing your team every week doesn?t help consistency in my opinion, if you?re playing poorly then expect to be dropped but how can you change someone like rodon for example just to give bjol a game, it?s difficult.

[ozleeds]

Chopppng and changing your team every week doesn?t help consistency in my opinion, if you?re playing poorly then expect to be dropped but how can you change someone like rodon for example just to give bjol a game, it?s difficult.

You drop Pat. Are you looking forward to the new useless keeper coming straight back in? Are you looking forward to watching Aaronson week in, week out? What about losing Gray Tanaka Piroe Bijol and the other new CB in January, if not more? But then again who cares not going to hurt my hip pocket not that theres much there lol

[MrsORichSenior_]

Those stats don’t really address the point being made about two specific players nor the general observation over the last 2 and a bit season as to how Farke rotates squads.

Bijol has had zero PL minutes and he was supposed to be our marquee signing. That is perplexing. Tanaka has fared a bit better but tends to come on as a very late sub - there is no suggestion he isn’t good enough. The game v Fulham which I was at was crying out for him to come on for Stach after 60 mins as Stach was out on his feet. It didn’t happened.

We hay have used 21 players but the stats you produced don’t show how many minutes or what time they can on.

Not saying Farke is an awful coach but subs and squad rotation has been a consistent weakness - if Gruev and Ampadu hadn’t got injured Tanaka (and Rothwell) would never have got anywhere near the time they did last year and deserved to have.

The list of players grumbling about it continues to grow at Leeds and he has had it elsewhere too.

Crew made zero minutes last season before his loan to Rovers - he is clearly good enough. Gray has made zero minutes this season. He is the age where 5 minutes here and there gives him a taste and is good for development.

Giving players like Tanaka, Gnonto (when fit) or Justin 5 to 15 minutes here and there is neither good generally for squad harmony and if injuries occur and they are needed it means they are not match fit.

Farke is not a top tier elite manager so will have flaws and this seems to be one of them.

how do you strike a balance between giving players enough playing time and avoiding discontent within the squad ?

i saw what the Slovenian manager said about Bijol situation when asked ..... so he must have had a word with Farke about the player and agreed with Farkes response.......

coaches cannot dismiss natural fitness/stamina and personality...... which will also dictate how you rotate a player as well.......

but if a player is overplayed or injury prone.... as Rodon and Struijk are prime examples of with one being overplayed and the other injury prone..... then as we head into busier schedules as i said...... all will get their chance.

very different for keepers as age and experience can help more for their specific individual demands...... which is tough on younger keepers learning their trades, as I know well....... even City signed an excellent keeper in Donnarumma who still needs work on aspects of his game....... as did we...... but the new Puma ball scenario is made for the attributes and strengths of Perri..... even though his footwork needs more work on.... as does his sweeping up and kicking distribution which Darlow is better at presently......but is not so good with his reflex situ........

just think your being a tad harsh on Farke.....as players we have bought in are not the finished articles yet..... and could end up getting mugged in Premier league resulting in low confidence all round..... there will be ideal games for their inclusion and matches so far were not ideal in my mind........ they will get their game time as we go on....as in side before self discipline.

MOT

[Billyni]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record.
I thought all our new signings were to improve the team to premiership standard.
Now it seems that most of them can’t get into last season’s championship team.
Why Delilah?

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

The best managers manage playing time but also pick games and moments to blood and progress youngsters.

Surely you are not saying Farke is good at squad rotation, squad development and subs.

I?ve acknowledged his success last year and that he is doing well given the challenges this. Surely that does not mean we have to venerate every aspect of what he does.

Young players typically have specific development plans which if they are good enough the senior coaches carry on to how they can be given a chance to swim and develop in a bigger pond.

Farke seems to concentrate solely on the first team and react to injuries or form before other break in. In that regard he is playing 2D chess when the better ones are playing in 3D chess.

He seems thin skinned too and won?t take comments from young players which is more a reflection on him than them.

[MrsORichSenior_]

The best managers manage playing time but also pick games and moments to blood and progress youngsters.

Surely you are not saying Farke is good at squad rotation, squad development and subs.

I?ve acknowledged his success last year and that he is doing well given the challenges this. Surely that does not mean we have to venerate every aspect of what he does.

Young players typically have specific development plans which if they are good enough the senior coaches carry on to how they can be given a chance to swim and develop in a bigger pond.

Farke seems to concentrate solely on the first team and react to injuries or form before other break in. In that regard he is playing 2D chess when the better ones are playing in 3D chess.

He seems thin skinned too and won?t take comments from young players which is more a reflection on him than them.

i understand your point of view but..... i do not agree with it...😬

1.The best managers manage playing time but also pick games and moments to blood and progress youngsters ?

this stage of our current PL season is NOT the time to blood youngsters.....

2.Surely you are not saying Farke is good at squad rotation, squad development and subs ?

time will tell..... as THIS PL season progresses.

3.I?ve acknowledged his success last year and that he is doing well given the challenges this. Surely that does not mean we have to venerate every aspect of what he does ?

i am commenting on our maiden PL season NOW...... with the goal being survival with the remnants of last years squad and our new arrivals been bought in to do a specific job in helping that aim.

4.Young players typically have specific development plans which if they are good enough the senior coaches carry on to how they can be given a chance to swim and develop in a bigger pond ?

young players have AGREED development plans.... this season requires seasoned pros to get the job done...... and good coaches will want to see good young ones play weekly games to develop without the stress of PL sink or swim performances blighting their development programme.

5.Farke seems to concentrate solely on the first team and react to injuries or form before other break in. In that regard he is playing 2D chess when the better ones are playing in 3D chess.

Farke is a PL coach fully focused on achieving winning football results for our club..... we have invested in short term age groups that should be good enough to do the job required when they are given a chance.

6.He seems thin skinned too and won?t take comments from young players which is more a reflection on him than them.

how do you know that ?
how do you know what happens in his office ?

the club operates a system into deducing who fits the bill as a Leeds United player, several coaches are involved in player feed back from the training pitches....... skills help but so does personality which must be team integrated... and marked by a unified control of all aspects needed to be a professional footballer....

as from early training regimes....starting from development of the early physical and mental players raw materials right through to the final distribution of a finished fully focused player....... if you cannot fully perform into what is being asked for or expected from you..... then its sink or swim......

not every young footballer is a guaranteed winner who can play on the big stages.... and giving a young talent a 5 minute cameo appearances this season for a Leeds side currently trying to establish itself at the highest level.... such a situation will not happen in this seasons PL.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

i understand your point of view but..... i do not agree with it...😬

1.The best managers manage playing time but also pick games and moments to blood and progress youngsters ?

this stage of our current PL season is NOT the time to blood youngsters.....

2.Surely you are not saying Farke is good at squad rotation, squad development and subs ?

time will tell..... as THIS PL season progresses.

3.I?ve acknowledged his success last year and that he is doing well given the challenges this. Surely that does not mean we have to venerate every aspect of what he does ?

i am commenting on our maiden PL season NOW...... with the goal being survival with the remnants of last years squad and our new arrivals been bought in to do a specific job in helping that aim.

4.Young players typically have specific development plans which if they are good enough the senior coaches carry on to how they can be given a chance to swim and develop in a bigger pond ?

young players have AGREED development plans.... this season requires seasoned pros to get the job done...... and good coaches will want to see good young ones play weekly games to develop without the stress of PL sink or swim performances blighting their development programme.

5.Farke seems to concentrate solely on the first team and react to injuries or form before other break in. In that regard he is playing 2D chess when the better ones are playing in 3D chess.

Farke is a PL coach fully focused on achieving winning football results for our club..... we have invested in short term age groups that should be good enough to do the job required when they are given a chance.

6.He seems thin skinned too and won?t take comments from young players which is more a reflection on him than them.

how do you know that ?
how do you know what happens in his office ?

the club operates a system into deducing who fits the bill as a Leeds United player, several coaches are involved in player feed back from the training pitches....... skills help but so does personality which must be team integrated... and marked by a unified control of all aspects needed to be a professional footballer....

as from early training regimes....starting from development of the early physical and mental players raw materials right through to the final distribution of a finished fully focused player....... if you cannot fully perform into what is being asked for or expected from you..... then its sink or swim......

not every young footballer is a guaranteed winner who can play on the big stages.... and giving a young talent a 5 minute cameo appearances this season for a Leeds side currently trying to establish itself at the highest level.... such a situation will not happen in this seasons PL.

MOT

Probably best to agree to disagree as a lot of the points being made are not really very specific to what I am saying or are not things I disagree with but seem to suggest I am.

If he keeps us up great and he is a relative genius but in comparison to most of the coaches in the PL he doesn?t necessarily compare that well on many fronts.

The best managers tend to be less binary in approach.

[MrsORichSenior_]

Probably best to agree to disagree as a lot of the points being made are not really very specific to what I am saying or are not things I disagree with but seem to suggest I am.

If he keeps us up great and he is a relative genius but in comparison to most of the coaches in the PL he doesn?t necessarily compare that well on many fronts.

The best managers tend to be less binary in approach.

which coaches..... at which clubs.... and what revenue streams do they work from and how long have their clubs been actually established in PL..... as a matter of interest....... would be my final counter offer for middle ground.......regarding Farke after only a handful of games.

MOT

[spaldy]

Some good points both good and bad on Farke

Simpleminded that I am?.. Biggest fear I have is we end up with another Ted.😳

We do know what Farke can do and the team generally seems to play for him. I do think we are good enough to survive which is the most important thing first year back

[ozleeds]

which coaches..... at which clubs.... and what revenue streams do they work from and how long have their clubs been actually established in PL..... as a matter of interest....... would be my final counter offer for middle ground.......regarding Farke after only a handful of games.

MOT

Hold on, he's been there 3 years and took a club arguably the best championship squad into not getting promotion, then next season he did it with the best squad in probably the worst ever championship. His record at top division clubs is nothing short of crap. His dissensions on the game day squad and talk are not what he preaches, and he tends to do it one way, and we all know how it will end up. Full of excuses to cover his mistakes. The Premier League is unforgiving and we all know how corrupt it is, so if you don't have someone special, you don't survive, just ask all the outgoing managers every year and they are miles better than Mr. Farke. I respect your views and others, but what Hope is saying is 100% right in my eyes, and nothing will change it.

[ozleeds]

Some good points both good and bad on Farke

Simpleminded that I am?.. Biggest fear I have is we end up with another Ted.��

We do know what Farke can do and the team generally seems to play for him. I do think we are good enough to survive which is the most important thing first year back

But they don't, you may think they do, but behind the scenes, it's not rainbows and glitter. He has destroyed quite a few talented players whom some have recovered in other teams, but some are scared for life. I get it's not his fault the 49ers are the main blame, and again I stress, unless Red Bull takes full control, we will be a nothing club. As for surviving like you, I hope that again I say to myself what for if it's going to be the same next season and the one after.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

which coaches..... at which clubs.... and what revenue streams do they work from and how long have their clubs been actually established in PL..... as a matter of interest....... would be my final counter offer for middle ground.......regarding Farke after only a handful of games.

MOT

Pretty much every other team and coach in the PL. I have looked at the stats for about 12 clubs ranging for Arsenal, Liverpool and City at one end to Burnley and Spam at the other and Sunderland, Fulham and Bournemouth in between.

What is fairly consistent is that those clubs make at least 4 subs each game and a lot more typically 5 and they make the subs at lot earlier.

Some at half time to change the game but often around the 60th minute.

Arsenal and city often make half time subs (and more than one).

We consistently make fewer and later subs than other teams. A lot of our subs are in the from the 78th minutes or between 80 and 90 minutes.

The game has deeper benches with up to 5 subs.

We don’t use it for impact and we don’t use it to rotate enough - most of those other clubs do.

Farke’s record is fairly mediocre and Leeds had the best squad in each of the last two seasons - last year by a mile so he was expected to get us up.

Increasingly, he talks about his own exploits as a striker as if he understands DCL etc. His record was decent but he was playing a lot in regional (which no longer exist) not national football so equivalent to L2 here at best but more likely the national league division 2.

When he speaks he often talks about himself which comes across to me as insure or narcissistic.

He is a decent coach and has found a niche in the leagues below the top league. It seems in the top league his flaws get exposed.

As I have said elsewhere, I’ve been fairly impressed with what he has done so far but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t got a lot of improving to do.

If you are a young player you don’t sign for Leeds to break through - he has said publicly several times he likes youngsters on the bench but not on the pitch. A lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds left this summer including some to spurs. I don’t think any of that is a co-incidence.

The game has moved on and I’m not sure he has caught up. The way he speaks to and treats some players I really really don’t like.

[MrsORichSenior_]

Pretty much every other team and coach in the PL. I have looked at the stats for about 12 clubs ranging for Arsenal, Liverpool and City at one end to Burnley and Spam at the other and Sunderland, Fulham and Bournemouth in between.

What is fairly consistent is that those clubs make at least 4 subs each game and a lot more typically 5 and they make the subs at lot earlier.

Some at half time to change the game but often around the 60th minute.

Arsenal and city often make half time subs (and more than one).

We consistently make fewer and later subs than other teams. A lot of our subs are in the from the 78th minutes or between 80 and 90 minutes.

The game has deeper benches with up to 5 subs.

We don’t use it for impact and we don’t use it to rotate enough - most of those other clubs do.

Farke’s record is fairly mediocre and Leeds had the best squad in each of the last two seasons - last year by a mile so he was expected to get us up.

Increasingly, he talks about his own exploits as a striker as if he understands DCL etc. His record was decent but he was playing a lot in regional (which no longer exist) not national football so equivalent to L2 here at best but more likely the national league division 2.

When he speaks he often talks about himself which comes across to me as insure or narcissistic.

He is a decent coach and has found a niche in the leagues below the top league. It seems in the top league his flaws get exposed.

As I have said elsewhere, I’ve been fairly impressed with what he has done so far but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t got a lot of improving to do.

If you are a young player you don’t sign for Leeds to break through - he has said publicly several times he likes youngsters on the bench but not on the pitch. A lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds left this summer including some to spurs. I don’t think any of that is a co-incidence.

The game has moved on and I’m not sure he has caught up. The way he speaks to and treats some players I really really don’t like.

to summarise...... early days for Farkes newly introduced base 4-3-3..... which he has changed from the effective based 4-2-3-1 used successfully last season .... which is encouraging......not to defensive and allows quicker build-ups.....with the defensive shape kept well within it.... helped by an improved more physical midfield.......

but someone had to give way for our present PL early days set up....... so it was the Tanaka silky skills that were benched.... for now anyway......... a decision made in my eyes due to our increased focus on intensity when out of possession...... an area that our metrics dept decided Tanaka was a weak link....... as we do like to play direct for Lewin.

so i do see Farke as indeed having supplied detailed further greater tactical flexibility in our Premier League approach so far..... using what he had available for the individual match opponents we have played..... so far.

all done with trying to play football with an attacking mentality currently....... which should be applauded....... as playing such football comes with risks...... but it suits the majority of our present players skills level..... and fans in the main like it.....

if certain goal chances had been taken...... i am sure that you would still not be happy with him at our helm..... looking at substitution timings of other PL teams then 60 plus minutes is the norm from what i have been shown....... but i do not personally think we should have been chasing any of our past tight games by changing players...... as we are not quite good enough yet as an experienced team unit yet..... maybe another 5 games will tighten that aspect of really knowing one another on the pitch.... for me we have to keep it real and in perspective.

but its great that objective spectacled eyes can bring alternate views into debates to express opinions... for consideration and done with respect...... enjoy your weekend and stay safe.

MOT

👀 maybe a decent weekend read for you J.......about how the peoples game fell into the hands of the wealthy global elite..... and what does that mean for the fans left behind.......
investigative journalist Aidrian Goldberg and big Baggies fan.......uncovers how English football was transformed from a community asset into a globalised, billion pound business through the murky trails of club ownership, political compromise and regulatory failure.....

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

to summarise...... early days for Farkes newly introduced base 4-3-3..... which he has changed from the effective based 4-2-3-1 used successfully last season .... which is encouraging......not to defensive and allows quicker build-ups.....with the defensive shape kept well within it.... helped by an improved more physical midfield.......

but someone had to give way for our present PL early days set up....... so it was the Tanaka silky skills that were benched.... for now anyway......... a decision made in my eyes due to our increased focus on intensity when out of possession...... an area that our metrics dept decided Tanaka was a weak link....... as we do like to play direct for Lewin.

so i do see Farke as indeed having supplied detailed further greater tactical flexibility in our Premier League approach so far..... using what he had available for the individual match opponents we have played..... so far.

all done with trying to play football with an attacking mentality currently....... which should be applauded....... as playing such football comes with risks...... but it suits the majority of our present players skills level..... and fans in the main like it.....

if certain goal chances had been taken...... i am sure that you would still not be happy with him at our helm..... looking at substitution timings of other PL teams then 60 plus minutes is the norm from what i have been shown....... but i do not personally think we should have been chasing any of our past tight games by changing players...... as we are not quite good enough yet as an experienced team unit yet..... maybe another 5 games will tighten that aspect of really knowing one another on the pitch.... for me we have to keep it real and in perspective.

but its great that objective spectacled eyes can bring alternate views into debates to express opinions... for consideration and done with respect...... enjoy your weekend and stay safe.

MOT

👀 maybe a decent weekend read for you J.......about how the peoples game fell into the hands of the wealthy global elite..... and what does that mean for the fans left behind.......
investigative journalist Aidrian Goldberg and big Baggies fan.......uncovers how English football was transformed from a community asset into a globalised, billion pound business through the murky trails of club ownership, political compromise and regulatory failure.....

I never said Tanaka should start - was saying Farke is rubbish at subs and giving people game time. Said from two games I’ve been at Stach needed subbing at 60 mins and in one game he stayed on and we lost and in another it was about 83 mins.

Look at the stats I looked at every game this season for 12 PL clubs to see when they make subs and those will have included all clubs but for fewer games. We are the slowest to make subs and make them later bar possibly West Ham - Spam are not doing so great.

Read a lot about the game and the changes some of which are inevitable but still sad.

Have a good weekend too and we clearly disagree on Farke’s flaws but the world would be boring if there was nothing to debate. I know you know a few in the inside of the game and at Leeds through work but I do too.