Ok, where do we go from here?

[Zippity]

Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater...but the baby has shtt and pissed in the bathwater and it definitely needs chucking out and a new bath running.

Today was like a greatest hits of all our recent troubles:

No intensity

Losing the second ball

Getting pushed off the ball too easily

Appalling ball retention

Shocking passing

Weak tackling

Terrible subs

Atrocious ball into the box

Shite set pieces

Top players massively underperforming

Have I missed anything?

Sorry to be so negative but I don't think this result-and the manner of it-will surprise anyone...and that's worrying.

Whatever we're doing at the moment isn't working, that much is clear.

And, actually, after a derby defeat...I'm not sorry for being negative...I'm just sorry I have to be.

So there.

[toonviking]

Everything we used to be, seems to be gone.

Gordon is a shadow of him self. Elanga and Woltemade is not working.

I thought Hall and Tino back would fix most of our problems, but that lasted for one game.

Thiaw has been decent, but our central defence is still shoite and hes a big part of it. Were not solid at the back anymore.

What is it, 10 goals in the last 15 min or so this season?

Our midfield 3, that used to be maybe the best in the league, is not working. We dont dominate anyone in the league there.

Our attack cause little or no problem for any team in the league.

Elanga cant be anywhere near a starting line up. He looks like hes never played football.

Woltemade started well and scored a few, but I'm not sure he really fits into this team.

Too many new players that dont really fit in.

Apart from Thiaw, the Isak money looks wasted to me.

[OwdBillCook]

Dunno where we go, really!!
To state the bleedin obvious, that's up to Eddie. And he'd better do something PDQ I reckon.

I've only watched a couple of games recently - and what I saw echoes Toonphil's comment on the match thread " Pass the ball back, sideways. No risk taking. It's predictable. We are easy to defend against. For the first season Howe isn't improving players. We don't do well having Champions League and the league."

Rang true to me. What I saw was a team that hadn't a clue how to press forward, how to attack with any penetration. No energy, no real plan it seemed. Last season I put it down to our bad injury history - not pressing too much whilst we were still in the Chamions League and Cups.
Doesn't make sense this season. We have much better squad depth. OK, that has its own problems - players having to learn to work with each other when they're not familiar.
But I was still appalled at the total lack of a strategic plan. Which, rightly or wrongly, made it look as though the players weren't that bothered. Knocking it sideways in midfield. If pressed, too often passing it further and further back. Painful to watch. Goals, other than set pieces, looked as though they'd be rare as hen's teeth.
The precise opposite of the long-gone "intensity is our identity". But if "intensity" was Plan A, it looked like "clueless" was plan B. By the sound of it, it still does.
Maybe Eddie is struggling to manage the Prem, 2 Cups, and the Champoins League all together. Not surprising, really, given his managerial experience.
But now he has - at least on paper- our best squad for ages

I reckon he'd better be a quick learner in coming to terms with football at the highest level - otherwise the vultures will be circling ever closer.
I surely hope he does!

[ex_pat_magpie]

I'll bet Joelinton is thinking "I told you so"

[toptoon]

Very poor, overall. Eddie keeps saying we have little time to train due to the volume of games - it certainly looks like it. The quality of passing and team play isnt good enough.
Theres too much quality in our team to put on a performance like that and create so very little.

Only the cups to get excited about this season because unless there is a big change (which there could be once our number of games decreases) then europe through the league isnt happening.

[tinostongue]

A few things to be changed for me. I chose not to watch today because I feared the worst, and they let us down AGAIN! Woltermade doesn’t fit into our pattern of play,Elanga is ****e and don’t care what our manager says about “ it will take time” , Ramsey never been seen? ?150 million wasted imo. I would sell Elanga and Woltermade, not sure about Ramsay as IVE NEVER SEEN HIM, why doesn’t our manager play him ffs, Tonali wants away, joelinton not good enough, Gordon, let him go to Liverpool for ?100 million. Players to keep, both fullbacks, Thiaww, Bruno, Miley, Barnes,Wissa, J Murphy, Botman maybe. They flatter to deceive, no guts,no fight, no pace, no ideas, and as for the manager,he’s had my backing all through the bad performances but enough is enough. If he’s chosen the summer buys then don’t give him any more money,hopefully Wilson will sort things out. Never been so unhappy with my team!

[Jammy89]

Not sure where we go - but Eddie needs to do sumit.

Also - what the **** has our new set piece coach done so far this season? I don't see any improvement in our set pieces, in fact i'd say we've got worse both at attacking them and defending them.

[toptoon]

I think the kindest description Ive heard of our current season is that it is a transitional one. Theres a pattern emerging; when we qualify for the CL we play sh*t. Eddie has decided to take all competitions full on and this is maybe a mistake. Everyone complains when a weak side is put out in the Carabao but if the alternative is what were seeing then maybe there are some tough decisions to take. As defending Champions it makes it even harder.

My take: the squad is not strong enough yet to take on the CL and the PL together. I think our manager is.
Its not easy finding for positives this season. I do think well improve once out of the CL - many teams form improves then.
Today you saw a quality squad playing a load of fixtures against a good squad who need concentrate and train only for league games. Until we deepen squad quality we can expect more performances like this - over to you PSR!

[HughieG]

A few things to be changed for me. I chose not to watch today because I feared the worst, and they let us down AGAIN! Woltermade doesn?t fit into our pattern of play,Elanga is ****e and don?t care what our manager says about ? it will take time? , Ramsey never been seen? ?150 million wasted imo. I would sell Elanga and Woltermade, not sure about Ramsay as IVE NEVER SEEN HIM, why doesn?t our manager play him ffs, Tonali wants away, joelinton not good enough, Gordon, let him go to Liverpool for ?100 million. Players to keep, both fullbacks, Thiaww, Bruno, Miley, Barnes,Wissa, J Murphy, Botman maybe. They flatter to deceive, no guts,no fight, no pace, no ideas, and as for the manager,he?s had my backing all through the bad performances but enough is enough. If he?s chosen the summer buys then don?t give him any more money,hopefully Wilson will sort things out. Never been so unhappy with my team!

Just a few things then Tino

[Marat18]

Since our wingers are sh!te, we might try playing 5-3-2 with WW up front.
Honestly, most our passes in final third are to corner flag

[Cannylad]

I remember back in the dinosaur days we had two full backs, three half backs, three forwards and two speedster wingers. With the coach's orders ringing in our ears "When in doubt, attack"
Halcyon days !

[Zippity]

Hearing Eddie say our plan in the first half was to keep it solid and compact, i.e sit back and try to break. is a big worry for me,

That's not us, it's certainly not been us under Eddie so why is he changing? Our best performances under Eddie have been on the front foot, pressing high, winning the ball, forcing the opposition to make mistakes...but none of that was evident on Sunday.

We treated them like they were Arsenal or prime Man City, It's what Rafa used to do and it's shit.

I haven't spoken to a fan who wasn't either embarrassed or appalled-or both-by our approach and I'm afraid that's down to Eddie and how he set us up, the instructions he gave to the players, his in-game management.

He got this one wrong-badly wrong-and I'm fucking seething with him for the first time.

BUT...it'll pass and I don't want to change managers. Not only does he have plenty of credit left in the bank, he's the man to take us forward, imo. Just doesn't mean he's immune from criticism.

[toonviking]

I dont want to change the manager either. But I want the old Eddie. Not this sit back Eddie.

Eventually, it HAS to change, otherwise he will be changed.

[toptoon]

Hehe. And yet there were plenty folk calling for him to change our way of playing at the end of last season as we were too predictable.

Fair enough to be compact and break but we didnt break and had zero shots on goal in the first half. Elanga playing sh?*t plus our abysmal transitional play meant we offered no offensive threat whatsoever in the first half.
With our lack of pace in the middle, teams are closing us down on the flanks and shutting off our attacks. Hopefully Wissa can give us options.

[HughieG]

I see real potential in Wissa and Woltemade playing up front together for a long stretch of time. Curb the numbnuts Gordon and Elanga for a while, find space for Barnes instead.

Ideally we could switch between the 433 and some kind og 532 / 352 formation. Like against the scummers, so when it wasn't working out, we play two strikers up front instead of taking off Wolte.

But then again, currently it's not the formation what's the problem, it's the approach and philosophy to playing the matches, it seems.