O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[crazyfists]

It's not about right v left, Tory v Labour or leave v remain. It's about how someone conducted themselves as our Prime Minister and it was a real mess, lurching from one crisis to the next, lying, law breaking, lack of care about others character and enriching his own life with public money. In my opinion people defending him are stuck in the old us versus them and turning a blind eye to massive errors on the PMs part. If it was a Labour PM I'd say he has to go, not back his nonsense to the death.

[hissingdwarf]

Sums up the current state of our political system.

https://twitter.com/fritschner/status/1545077380527673344?s=21&t=IGtpk2ccGR-Rfzqa2upJ_w

[the_anticlough]

It's not about right v left, Tory v Labour or leave v remain. It's about how someone conducted themselves as our Prime Minister and it was a real mess, lurching from one crisis to the next, lying, law breaking, lack of care about others character and enriching his own life with public money. In my opinion people defending him are stuck in the old us versus them and turning a blind eye to massive errors on the PMs part. If it was a Labour PM I'd say he has to go, not back his nonsense to the death.

Top post

[BanjoPie]

Top post

Don’t think many on here defending Boris, that would be a very difficult to do however, it seems not many have any faith in the current Labour leader to get us out of this sh*t. It makes me shiver wondering where we are going politically and what the future may hold for our grandchildren.

[BigFatPie]

Don’t think many on here defending Boris, that would be a very difficult to do however, it seems not many have any faith in the current Labour leader to get us out of this sh*t. It makes me shiver wondering where we are going politically and what the future may hold for our grandchildren.

Interested to know what you or others think Keir Starmer should do or say to have ‘faith’ in him to improve on the current situation? And who of the potential new Tory leaders might be better?

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Interested to know what you or others think Keir Starmer should do or say to have ‘faith’ in him to improve on the current situation? And who of the potential new Tory leaders might be better?

i must admit I'm confused about why Starmer isn't up to the job and the conservatives are still an option ?
He is the leader of the party that pressured the Cons into giving us a Windfall Tax , he doesn't lie at the drop of a hat and has morals and integrity. To top it off he has been cleared of all false allegations on Curry Gate, so it seems the possible only negative about him is now cleared up.
can anyone please explain why they have no faith in him or labour ( i am aware he has said that Brexit will stay and they wont revisit this , a massive negative but we have that with the CONs anyway )?

[GranthamPie]

i must admit I'm confused about why Starmer isn't up to the job and the conservatives are still an option ?
He is the leader of the party that pressured the Cons into giving us a Windfall Tax , he doesn't lie at the drop of a hat and has morals and integrity. To top it off he has been cleared of all false allegations on Curry Gate, so it seems the possible only negative about him is now cleared up.
can anyone please explain why they have no faith in him or labour ( i am aware he has said that Brexit will stay and they wont revisit this , a massive negative but we have that with the CONs anyway )?

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1498591/keir-starmer-labour-party-conference-boris-johnson-10-pledges-jeremy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/inquiry-or-no-left-must-never-forget-what-we-learned-labours-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

[the_anticlough]

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

Me neither.
Of course Stramar would be an improvement on anyone the totally discredited tories can offer. But I will never vote for him.

He chose 'business as usual' for our politics. He inherited a mass movement of engaged young people, but rejected it in favour of re-concentrating power in a Westminster-centric world where parliamentarians trade policies with vested interests and lobbyists. No wealth or power structure will ever be questioned. The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR. Starmar is just hoping FPTP can throw Labour a few years of power (for the PLP cabal only) before the tories take over yet again.

Labour can never win without Scotland anyway, so they better start thinking differently asap.
We'll have to accept a period of politics being totally disfunctional before we can move on to something better and more representative. But it's disfunctional anyway, so what is there to lose?

[drillerpie]

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1498591/keir-starmer-labour-party-conference-boris-johnson-10-pledges-jeremy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/inquiry-or-no-left-must-never-forget-what-we-learned-labours-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

That's all fair enough but he has a massive problem (that all left wing parties in Europe/US have, but especially in a FPTP electoral system) which is that he has to find a balance between the all the different potential left wing voters. This means finding a compromise between:

The 'working class' who are economically left but socially traditional, patriotic and anti EU

Idealistic students with blue hair who tweet about gender fluidity, bringing down the patriarchy and introducing Maoism

Left leaning middle class who are socially liberal, pro EU, and doing well enough in the current system to not want to flush the whole things down the toilet and start again.

He's got to do that with the vast majority of the press against him, looking to pounce on any hint of wacky unrealistic policies that sound great in left wing twitter echo chambers but sound mental to most normal people (and left wing parties normally provide a steady self-sabotaging stream of these - see Corbyn).

It's quite a hard job and he's doing it reasonably well IMO.

[GranthamPie]

Me neither.
Of course Stramar would be an improvement on anyone the totally discredited tories can offer. But I will never vote for him.

He chose 'business as usual' for our politics. He inherited a mass movement of engaged young people, but rejected it in favour of re-concentrating power in a Westminster-centric world where parliamentarians trade policies with vested interests and lobbyists. No wealth or power structure will ever be questioned. The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR. Starmar is just hoping FPTP can throw Labour a few years of power (for the PLP cabal only) before the tories take over yet again.

Labour can never win without Scotland anyway, so they better start thinking differently asap.
We'll have to accept a period of politics being totally disfunctional before we can move on to something better and more representative. But it's disfunctional anyway, so what is there to lose?

Yup… in his desperation to win back red wall areas south of the border, Starmer has effectively handed Scotland to the pro EU SNP. Shame really because under Corbyn, there were signs that Labour were once again emerging as a serious alternative to the Nationalist in Scotland.

You’re absolutely right about engaged young people in the Labour movement… it’s not something I’ve witnessed in my lifetime and constitutes a missed opportunity of gargantuan proportions. Corbyn and the left also missed an opportunity to break away from the centrists and Blairites and form an alternative, left leaning party.

And here we are…. back with three main parties in Westmonster, were you couldn’t slide a fag paper between them.

Shame really

[hissingdwarf]

This. Any progress made in the Labour Party has been thrown under the bus totally by Starmer etc...

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1498591/keir-starmer-labour-party-conference-boris-johnson-10-pledges-jeremy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/inquiry-or-no-left-must-never-forget-what-we-learned-labours-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

[crazyfists]

Me neither.
Of course Starmer would be an improvement on anyone the totally discredited Tories can offer. But I will never vote for him.


He chose 'business as usual' for our politics. He inherited a mass movement of engaged young people, but rejected it in favour of re-concentrating power in a Westminster-centric world where parliamentarians trade policies with vested interests and lobbyists. No wealth or power structure will ever be questioned. The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR. Starmer is just hoping FPTP can throw Labour a few years of power (for the PLP cabal only) before the Tories take over yet again.


Labour can never win without Scotland anyway, so they better start thinking differently asap.
We'll have to accept a period of politics being totally dysfunctional before we can move on to something better and more representative. But it's dysfunctional anyway, so what is there to lose?

Agree with all of this. Starmer has been very underwhelming and is blowing a lot of his best ways forward.

[hissingdwarf]

Saya a alot when Starmer is in the Royal Box for the tennis rather than going to the Durham Big Weekend TU meeting.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1498591/keir-starmer-labour-party-conference-boris-johnson-10-pledges-jeremy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/inquiry-or-no-left-must-never-forget-what-we-learned-labours-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

I would rather a pound shop tory than the fully fledged real McCoy that runs the country Now ! ..
Corbyns gone the country didnt want him due to the damage done by the media.He was already a a hated man before the media ground him into the dirt but I dont see any reason why Kier and Raynor cant Cherry pick some of his best ideas when moving forward...

[hissingdwarf]

I would rather a pound shop tory than the fully fledged real McCoy that runs the country Now ! ..
Corbyns gone the country didnt want him due to the damage done by the media.He was already a a hated man before the media ground him into the dirt but I dont see any reason why Kier and Raynor cant Cherry pick some of his best ideas when moving forward...

That’s the point though. They haven’t. As was said before, a generation of people finally engaged in politics and the interest moving towards younger people rather than the pale, stale Tories…
And it’s all been thrown away, probably due to donors and sponsors saying they want a pale blue imitation.
Corbyn is done. As you said, media destroyed him and people believed the rubbish. But it doesn’t look like anyone in the LP is even willing to take it by the throat and push on. The LP is constantly stuck with in fighting locally and nationally.
That’s why Mick Lynch made such an impact the other week. He was willing to step up, be honest, blunt and take no prisoners.