O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[magpie_mania]

It seemed pretty clear to me that when the vaccines were introduced, the number of people hospitalised fell.

No-one ever promised that it was a silver bullet so that you wouldn't get Covid. I never understood it that way, only that symptoms would be less severe.

Those working on the vaccine were experts, and yes, it was new but was developed after years of research into vaccines.

[OldBanksy]

Firstly, respect to you for coming at this from a position of good faith.

For me it basically comes down to whether or not to trust the government making the decisions for the right reasons rather than vested interests (financial deals they personally benefit from) and to trust an industry with an appalling track record, or to trust people who have retired from the industry - ie not afraid to lose their jobs - and were willing to put their life long reputations on the line. Podcasters too risk being de-platformed, demonetised or cancelled for simply raising concerns and asking questions.

With the call for mandatory vaccines hopefully behind us, it isn't something that I ought to be wasting much energy on anymore and with every week that goes by, I'm feeling more and more vindicated, but I do have a close vaxxed family member in their 40s recently diagnosed with stage 4 cancer with no previous health issues (Anecdotally "Turbo cancer" or the vaccine "taking the breaks off cancer" seems to becoming a bit of a thing), another family member immediately post booster has had issues that the doctors cannot explain and I'm concerned for all other family members who've had the jab, so I'm certainly NOT feeling smug about this.

I couldn't agree more. I've seen people with severe problems following the jab, but doctors won't attribute it. I've seen a friend have a stroke within days. A family member with a clot that caused her death but her closer family members not making any association because it came about a month later. Many other peoole having problems but not making the association. My friend blames vaccines for his son's autism so none of his family would contemplate the jab.

We know pharma's criminal record. We know it was emergency use authorised so experimental. We know the average age of death from Covid exceeded the average age of death. We know healthy children were at no risk from Covid. We know no allowance given for natural immunity. We know pharma secured indemnity from liability because it could not be sure of the risks. We know pharma made billions. We know dissenting scientists were censored.

[BigFatPie]

It seemed pretty clear to me that when the vaccines were introduced, the number of people hospitalised fell.

No-one ever promised that it was a silver bullet so that you wouldn't get Covid. I never understood it that way, only that symptoms would be less severe.

Those working on the vaccine were experts, and yes, it was new but was developed after years of research into vaccines.

The ironic thing is that many of the people complaining about the vaccines wouldn’t be around to complain about them if it wasn’t for the vaccines, whether they chose to have them or not.

Hope that makes sense.

[OldBanksy]

We also know the authorities lied by claiming the vaccines stopped transmission. We know science is awash with pharma money and even top scientists say science can't be trusted.

[Magpies1959]

The number of hospitalised people fell when the vaccine was introduced, because we were well on the way to having developed our own immunity to the virus, and with each different strain, the virus was getting weaker.

Sleepy Joe promised it was a silver bullet, but then again he falls off scooters.

The people working on the vaccine, were such experts. they used the spikes of the virus to develop the vaccine, rather than the core of the virus, which would have produced a stronger longer lasting vaccine. Why would they do that I wonder... oh yes to sell more vaccines., kerrrr ching.

[OldBanksy]

The vaxers started to rumble it after they had had their vax, their booster, second booster, third booster, bivalent vax, and booster.

[Jampie]

There is no long term data, it's was an experiment, a new type of vaccine, literally a gene therapy. It really is that simple. Anybody who says that the science is settled is lying.

The science is settled unless new data emerges. Can you link to the data that makes you think mRNA vaccines are in some way dangerous?

[Jampie]

You're having a laugh, it reached the point where the stats (You could download straightforward Unvaxxed v vaxxed numbers of patients on ICU per month for individual hospitals) became inconvenient after they had promised the vax prevented hospitalisation and death. It didn't. They lied every step of the way (prevents infection, prevents spread, prevents severe illness, long term protection) and then hid the evidence.

Show me the evidence to the contrary then?

100% of the evidence I've seen shows that vaccinated people were hospitalised and died at far lower rates than unvaccinated. All of it. Every paper, every statistic, every government, every country.

Where is the evidence against?

[i961pie]

Sod the doctors in future, I will come on here and listen to the ''experts"😜

[OchPie]

Ok so I worked for the WHO and other agencies on Covid vaccines (distribution, not development) and had a WHO email address. So take this as you will. But reimagining history to support a narrative helps nobody.

The virus was not "getting weaker" - Delta was more deadly. People only get immunity after getting infected (or vaccinated!), so with a naive immune system it doesn't matter whether it was caught in April 2020 or April 2021.

And for this:

they used the spikes of the virus to develop the vaccine, rather than the core of the virus, which would have produced a stronger longer lasting vaccine. Why would they do that I wonder... oh yes to sell more vaccines., kerrrr ching.

Vaccines were aimed at a variety of parts of the virus, including "whole virus" approaches such as inactivated or live-attenuated virus approaches. That's what Sinovac is, for example. It just wasn't as effective.

By "the core" I assume you mean targeting nucleocapsid proteins, one of the four key protein types in the SARS-CoV-2 virus which is held inside the core of the virus. Companies went with spike vaccines because they were quicker, even knowing that they risked being out-evolved by the virus. Even AstraZeneca, who committed to an initial non-profit model. Research does continue though.

[upthemaggies]

Show me the evidence to the contrary then?

100% of the evidence I've seen shows that vaccinated people were hospitalised and died at far lower rates than unvaccinated. All of it. Every paper, every statistic, every government, every country.

Where is the evidence against?

You've reframed the argument.
You were making out vaccines prevented hospitalisation and death, now you're saying they were "far lower". The ICU stats were showing percentage of vaccinated were increasing and unvaccinated going down, then they stopped publishing as people began pointing that out.
Why would they push boosters if this were not the case?

As I said, unvaxxed were disproportionately from poor backgrounds and poor health. Average age maybe suggests they'd avoided care homes and being put on the ventilators in the first wave, then eventually caught it as it spread through communities.
No argument vax stimulated an immune response but it waned after three weeks and then you had no protection within around 3 months. Hence vaxxed then getting ill and need for boosters with talk of giving them indefinitely. 3 or 4 every year, which caused a lot more people to become suspicious and ask questions.

An experiment is trial and error. You wait to see what happens before declaring it safe, not before. This vax was given the green light on the basis there was a global emergency and that there was no other treatment whatsoever available. On one side you've got a diversity of ideas as to what can be done to treat people, the other insisting there can only be one single solution with anybody who suggests otherwise censored and smeared.

[Elite_Pie]

The people working on the vaccine, were such experts. they used the spikes of the virus to develop the vaccine, rather than the core of the virus, which would have produced a stronger longer lasting vaccine.

You should have put them right. You're clearly wasted on here.

[Magpies1959]

I tried EP but I was payed off to keep quiet.

[BanjoPie]

You've reframed the argument.
You were making out vaccines prevented hospitalisation and death, now you're saying they were "far lower". The ICU stats were showing percentage of vaccinated were increasing and unvaccinated going down, then they stopped publishing as people began pointing that out.
Why would they push boosters if this were not the case?

As I said, unvaxxed were disproportionately from poor backgrounds and poor health. Average age maybe suggests they'd avoided care homes and being put on the ventilators in the first wave, then eventually caught it as it spread through communities.
No argument vax stimulated an immune response but it waned after three weeks and then you had no protection within around 3 months. Hence vaxxed then getting ill and need for boosters with talk of giving them indefinitely. 3 or 4 every year, which caused a lot more people to become suspicious and ask questions.

An experiment is trial and error. You wait to see what happens before declaring it safe, not before. This vax was given the green light on the basis there was a global emergency and that there was no other treatment whatsoever available. On one side you've got a diversity of ideas as to what can be done to treat people, the other insisting there can only be one single solution with anybody who suggests otherwise censored and smeared.

Just post the evidence to back up your case and if it is factual evidence them maybe we will believe it!

[upthemaggies]

You should have put them right. You're clearly wasted on here.

Spike causes cell and tissue damage, once you've got that in v!ta@l areas of the body you've got problems. Repair comes at a long term cost. it's the young who will pay the price for this and they were at no risk. We've done this, as well as tanking the economy and causing psychological damage just to basically prolong the lives of people who were already at or beyond life expectancy age and of those, the most likely to die sooner than later.

There are no solutions, only trade offs.

A small bunch of people have become extremely rich though.