O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[upthemaggies]

Nobody want to comment on the European Parliament speech video posted by macstop?

I'm less clued up on everything that led up to 2019/20 than the fall out, so would be interested on what people's take is on what he actually had to say and the points he raised.

[BanjoPie]

try leaving the crack pipe to a more suitable time of day banjo, thanks.

so you believe the sh*t being posted by utm then?

[BanjoPie]

Try leaving the crack pipe to a more suitable time of day banjo, thanks.

JUST FOR YOU!

https://youtube.com/shorts/xE1dzqQxiN0?feature=share

[Magpies1959]

UTM, I think the deafening silence on the European Parliament speech, tells you all you need to know. Very telling and a brave guy for speaking out about the effectiveness, or lack of, I should say, about the vaccines, and how the virus was spread. Who'd of thought it. Pangolins my ar*e.

[upthemaggies]

UTM, I think the deafening silence on the European Parliament speech, tells you all you need to know. Very telling and a brave guy for speaking out about the effectiveness, or lack of, I should say, about the vaccines, and how the virus was spread. Who'd of thought it. Pangolins my ar*e.

I'll repost the link, it's 21 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8qEWJglY

[Magpies1959]

Not exactly to do with the leadership or covid debates going off on this thread, but it was good to see Nigel Farage and GB News ruffling a few feathers at the TRIC Awards yesterday. Much maligned by the msm, GB News is the only channel that presents a balanced view of the news and gives the general public their say. It is great to see the channel growing, while having to contend with attempts to shut it down or cancel it before it had even aired. Nice to see some balance in the increasingly biased world of news reporting.

[Newish Pie]

Nobody want to comment on the European Parliament speech video posted by macstop?

I'm less clued up on everything that led up to 2019/20 than the fall out, so would be interested on what people's take is on what he actually had to say and the points he raised.

If you want my reaction, it's that I'm not going to waste 21 minutes of my life listening to conspiracy theory nonsense. It would take me even longer to track down every claim and provide evidence to the contrary, because I'm not an expert and life is too short.

The video description is peppered with links to crypto. There's a disclaimer saying that the channel does not constitute investment advice, even though one of the channels is literally called "The Investment Club". Nothing about this indicates a credible or serious source. The speaker - as far as I can tell from his own website - is not a medical Doctor and seems to work in finance... presumably hence all the crypto stuff.

If other people want to put faith in this sort of thing, that's up to them. There seem to be a few debunkings of his previous stuff out there online that are only a google away. But people who've "done their own research" will presumably also have found and read these articles. So I'm not going to waste my time. Not least because I'm not going to change anyone's mind... if you want to take medical advice from someone hawking crypto... you do you.

Perhaps I'm being unfair here... perhaps some individuals are consistent about what they're sceptical about, but a lot of the COVID-scepticism/conspiracy theory stuff just isn't internally consistent. Sometimes the whole thing is a giant lizard new world order conspiracy theory 'plandemic'. Sometimes it's an accidental lab escape. Sometimes it' a "biological warfare crime", sometimes COVID is no worse than the common cold or the flu, or only kills people who are dying anyway. Sometimes it's that the vaccines are untested. Sometimes it's that they're accidentally dangerous and that's being covered up. Sometimes, it's that they're deliberately dangerous with some nefarious purpose. Sometimes they're killing a lot of people. Sometimes they're not, but they might in the future. Feels like it's an ever-shifting narrative.

[upthemaggies]

I'm not going to waste 21 minutes of my life listening to conspiracy theory nonsense..... The video description is peppered with links to crypto.

The man speaking isn't responsible for the channel that uploaded it. I could download that video and re-up it myself and put a link to the NHS, Government and BBC websites in the description.

He basically gives a history of experiments that have been done with coronavirus since the 1960s up to 2019, gain of function, animal experiments and Pfizer's failed attempts to create a vaccine since 1990. Would you deny that any of this has been happening?

[Newish Pie]

The man speaking isn't responsible for the channel that uploaded it. I could download that video and re-up it myself and put a link to the NHS, Government and BBC websites in the description.

He basically gives a history of experiments that have been done with coronavirus since the 1960s up to 2019, gain of function, animal experiments and Pfizer's failed attempts to create a vaccine since 1990. Would you deny that any of this has been happening?

Honestly, I don't know. But if I wanted to, I'm not going to that guy for the information.

My understanding is that there's been a lot of research by expert researchers that's gone through proper peer review and been published in academic journals on the corona family of viruses before the pandemic. It would be fairly standard for research that's got beyond a certain stage to use animal experiments ("in vivo"), so that wouldn't surprise me. I don't really know what Pfizer have done regarding vaccine creation. Ochpie mentioned earlier that we knew that the spike protein was a good vaccine target, but I think that's a much more recent (but pre-pandemic) discovery.

"Gain of Function" is something I don't know much about, but a cursory web search produces some explanations, along with a warning that it's one of the most misunderstood terms in science. Some people wrongly believe it means making things more dangerous, when it in fact scientists don't use it that way at all.

It's possible that the building blocks of an argument might be correct, might be genuinely misunderstood, or might be deliberately distorted. It could be that all the building blocks are correct, but that they don't justify the conclusion that's drawn from them.

If I did want to know more about these things, I'd seek that information from a credible source. That speaker is not, in my view, based on what it says on his own website, an expert in this topic. That doesn't make him wrong necessarily - there's an honourable history of science communicators who take complex ideas and make them accessible to a non-specialist audience. But he's not a science communicator or journalist any more than he's a medical doctor, a vaccine researcher, or a biologist.

For balance, I'm also not going to go to Jonathan Van Tam for ******* investment advice.

[Newish Pie]

Not exactly to do with the leadership or covid debates going off on this thread, but it was good to see Nigel Farage and GB News ruffling a few feathers at the TRIC Awards yesterday. Much maligned by the msm, GB News is the only channel that presents a balanced view of the news and gives the general public their say. It is great to see the channel growing, while having to contend with attempts to shut it down or cancel it before it had even aired. Nice to see some balance in the increasingly biased world of news reporting.

I really don't understand how a channel that gives right wing politicians their own shows can be described as "balanced". I mean, sure, it's telling some people what they want to hear. But that's not balance.

[upthemaggies]

But he's not a science communicator or journalist.

He's not claiming to be, he deals with patents and the legality, so knows the history of what they've been up to for the past 6 decades and when they have broken the law by going through the documents and presenting them to the public. If you'd watched the video then you would know this rather than making silly assumptions.

[Mud Pie]

Sometimes the whole thing is a giant lizard new world order conspiracy theory 'plandemic'. Sometimes it's an accidental lab escape. Sometimes it' a "biological warfare crime", sometimes COVID is no worse than the common cold or the flu, or only kills people who are dying anyway. Sometimes it's that the vaccines are untested. Sometimes it's that they're accidentally dangerous and that's being covered up. Sometimes, it's that they're deliberately dangerous with some nefarious purpose. Sometimes they're killing a lot of people. Sometimes they're not, but they might in the future. Feels like it's an ever-shifting narrative.

Would you deny that any of this has been happening?

Are you expecting to get to a point where you've proved somethign for sure and something is done about it?

would you please also state for sure that the moon landing was/not a hoax? Or that 5G is bad for us, or that Princess Di was deliberately killed, chemtrails, estrogen in the water, global warming will kill us all within a decade, Hilary Clinton uses baby fetuses to keep her young looking... ALdi is a communist plot, MSG is poison...

every responsible person should evaluate each and every claim, exhaust all research avenues including evaluating each and every source back three generations including close family ties, political affiliations, and business interests AND then you have to argue at great length with lots of VERY INTENSE types on tinternet before you even dare to posit a theory, sorry FACT

while I agree that it's all important, except for the bits that aren't of course, and that we should be as up on things as we can (which is why I follow and like most of the posts on here), but some of us have jobs and families and dream of Notts next ****-hot right wingback, and don't have post-graduate work in immunology/moon landings

Maybe a bigger question, if that's possible: Can you say what effect all of this online research and communication facility has had on the quality of our lives?

Maybe that's like asking if we were happier as mushrooms, but, with respect, do you feel your life is better after a day spent parsing David Martin?

[Mud Pie]

do you feel your life is better after a day spent parsing David Martin?

for anyone who's taking this route, here's a bit of rebuttal:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/ne...-conspiracies/

[upthemaggies]

would you please also state for sure that the moon landing was/not a hoax? Or that 5G is bad for us, or that Princess Di was deliberately killed, chemtrails, estrogen in the water, global warming will kill us all within a decade, Hilary Clinton uses baby fetuses to keep her young looking...
?

Moon Landings happened.
5G too early to tell
Princess Di, dunno, not that interested, maybe I should be.
Chemtrails, as above
Estrogen, as above
Global Warning, of course it's warning up, we've just come out an ice age relatively speaking and we're still in one of the coldest ever periods in the earth's history
Hillary Clinton, very dodgy but probably not that dodgy

[Mud Pie]

Moon Landings happened

proof?

eta: I'm off out for a run in the sun with my son! Is there a way to compare our quality of life while you prove the moon landing?