O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Kent Magpie]

The sad thing is that MPs voting for what's best for them rather than what's best for the people who elected them seems to be accepted, because "it's what they all do, they're all the same".

In situations of self preservation, I think they are... but I believe this was a free vote, so there should have been no repercussions had they voted against. I understand that they want to make amendments to, rather than kill, the bill. Which I would take to mean they all fundamentally support it and only want to tinker with the detail.

[Elite_Pie]

Not a good day for "the leadership". Two more crushing by-election defeats, but what does it mean?

I think it means that the Tories are dead in the water. They are so incompetent and divided that with each passing day they lose even more support. Labour have had a really bad week, but I think most people have made their mind up about the next election, they want to see the back of this corrupt and worthless government. If Sunak thinks that a slight upturn in economic figures in Autumn will keep him in power, he is deluded. It seems that Labour can perform poorly, but Reform UK will bail them out by taking Tory votes.

I don't think even Soccerman could put a positive spin on this!

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Not a good day for "the leadership". Two more crushing by-election defeats, but what does it mean?

I think it means that the Tories are dead in the water. They are so incompetent and divided that with each passing day they lose even more support. Labour have had a really bad week, but I think most people have made their mind up about the next election, they want to see the back of this corrupt and worthless government. If Sunak thinks that a slight upturn in economic figures in Autumn will keep him in power, he is deluded. It seems that Labour can perform poorly, but Reform UK will bail them out by taking Tory votes.

I don't think even Soccerman could put a positive spin on this!

Don't forget Rishi and Jeremy's little tax bribe that is coming !! maybe that will work wonders ? lets hope they don't crash the economy like Kwasi and Truss , watch them mortgages sky rocket !(due to our war in Russia and the pandemic Obviously !)

[Elite_Pie]

Yet another very bad day for 'the leadership', it's great to see the Tories get the severe kicking they deserved. Even their highlight of winning the Tees Valley mayoral vote was achieved by a candidate who completely distanced himself from Sunak! Good to see the Greens and LibDems make significant gains, we need to get away from two-party domination.

The funniest thing is 'honest' Lee Anderson predicting Reform UK will produce "a political earthquake", when they only managed a pathetic two council seats. The best comment I read was from someone who replied "Earthquake Lee???? More of a wet fart".

[Ex_Southwell_Magpie]

Would be nice to have a credible opposition rather than the vote for us we’re not Tory option.
I think most people are just genuinely fed up with politics now and looking at the local mayoral turnout, it seems that we have a mayor that nobody really wants or think necessary.

[jackal2]

Good to see the Greens and LibDems make significant gains, we need to get away from two-party domination.

The funniest thing is 'honest' Lee Anderson predicting Reform UK will produce "a political earthquake", when they only managed a pathetic two council seats. The best comment I read was from someone who replied "Earthquake Lee???? More of a wet fart".

It won't surprise you that I've got no political liking for the Lib Dems and the Greens, and obviously I know you've got no liking for Reform UK, but I agree with your point that we need to get away from two-party domination because both of the two 'major' parties are now so hopelessly compromised that neither comes close to representing the core right or left-wing ideologies they're supposed to represent.

The Conservatives are no longer conservative and Labour are no longer socialist. Neither offer the public any real choice or any prospect of genuine change. That's not to say there aren't still politicians within those two parties who remain consistent and true to their principles, but they're getting fewer, increasingly overrun by young, ambitious, but vacuous career politicians who have no real life experience or core values. They're happy to play within the ever more narrow tram lines of mainstream political debate, changing their shape and message in a heartbeat if they think it will move them more quickly up the political ladder.

We have an electoral system designed to make it almost impossible for any party other than the Conservatives or Labour to make serious inroads, and that's why, to use George Galloway's phrase, the public are currently being asked to choose between two cheeks of the same backside. At the next General Election the pendulum (such as it is!) will swing again and the public will no doubt make the 'prescribed' switch - with no particular enthusiasm - to something masquerading as the left cheek, but it won't materially change or improves their lives to any significant degree.

For anything to really change, something needs to break the mainstream political cycle, and I'm (almost) past the point of caring whether that disruption comes from an authentic right or left-wing party, as long as it comes from somewhere. The real political battle now isn't the fake choice between Conservatives and Labour, but the one to break the the current political control system in its entirety and give power and genuine choice back to the people.

Various smaller parties have attempted to challenge the Conservative/Labour hegemony before and ultimately fallen victim to the electoral system, but given that the public will inevitably continue to be offered no real choice at all by the 'big two', the hope must be that what is currently manifesting as public apathy will eventually turn to realisation and then anger, sufficient to create a situation where the two parties, and the electoral system that protects them, are replaced.

[queenslandpie]

Yet another very bad day for 'the leadership', it's great to see the Tories get the severe kicking they deserved. Even their highlight of winning the Tees Valley mayoral vote was achieved by a candidate who completely distanced himself from Sunak! Good to see the Greens and LibDems make significant gains, we need to get away from two-party domination.

The funniest thing is 'honest' Lee Anderson predicting Reform UK will produce "a political earthquake", when they only managed a pathetic two council seats. The best comment I read was from someone who replied "Earthquake Lee???? More of a wet fart".

I would be careful about getting away from 2 party domination. It's an admirable consideration but a few years ago we had a guy from the Motoring Enthusuasts party holding the balance of power here. Here is his opening speech...v=gBFnGnV0Dv8

And this horror show! https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...609-39ry8.html

[Jampie]

I would be careful about getting away from 2 party domination. It's an admirable consideration but a few years ago we had a guy from the Motoring Enthusuasts party holding the balance of power here. Here is his opening speech...v=gBFnGnV0Dv8

And this horror show! https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...609-39ry8.html

And yet... Ricky defended Medicare when it was under attack because, in his own words, it was better for the people which is why he was there. His stint in the senate actually made me think maybe we should randomly draft one "average joe" into the chamber each election

[Elite_Pie]

In the interests of balance, I have to say I'm NOT impressed with the leadership. Starmer & Co grabbing freebies with both hands is something I hoped wouldn't happen, so maybe those who said "they're all the same" are right after all. Why does Starmer need free tickets, free clothes and free glasses? I'm sure he could afford to pay himself. What's worse is that he initially tried to justify it before quite rightly being forced to backtrack. I still think he offers a better future than the Tories, but the gap between them isn't as wide as I hoped it would be.

[keldsyke]

In the interests of balance, I have to say I'm NOT impressed with the leadership. Starmer & Co grabbing freebies with both hands is something I hoped wouldn't happen, so maybe those who said "they're all the same" are right after all. Why does Starmer need free tickets, free clothes and free glasses? I'm sure he could afford to pay himself. What's worse is that he initially tried to justify it before quite rightly being forced to backtrack. I still think he offers a better future than the Tories, but the gap between them isn't as wide as I hoped it would be.

Great, unexpected and brave post to come on and acknowledge the situation, by the sounds of it it’s been going on for years in the Labour Party which really doesn’t surprise me that they are all (all parties) at it. Really interested how this whole situation with Starmer and the rest will pan out in the next few weeks. IMO Starmer, Lammy, Rayner, Reeves. Gray etc are the worst officials ever in power and that’s saying something. God knows what the budget will bring.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Great, unexpected and brave post to come on and acknowledge the situation, by the sounds of it it’s been going on for years in the Labour Party which really doesn’t surprise me that they are all (all parties) at it. Really interested how this whole situation with Starmer and the rest will pan out in the next few weeks. IMO Starmer, Lammy, Rayner, Reeves. Gray etc are the worst officials ever in power and that’s saying something. God knows what the budget will bring.

The country voted for change, and all that’s changed is the colour of the slogans.

[Elite_Pie]

Great, unexpected and brave post to come on and acknowledge the situation.

Just like with Notts games, I try and say what I see whatever I may have thought before.

I once made David Vaughan MOM as proof of that!

[marky]

In the interests of balance, I have to say I'm NOT impressed with the leadership. Starmer & Co grabbing freebies with both hands is something I hoped wouldn't happen, so maybe those who said "they're all the same" are right after all. Why does Starmer need free tickets, free clothes and free glasses? I'm sure he could afford to pay himself. What's worse is that he initially tried to justify it before quite rightly being forced to backtrack. I still think he offers a better future than the Tories, but the gap between them isn't as wide as I hoped it would be.

Not made a great start has he.

[SmiffyPie]

Angela Rayner when being challenged about staying in a New York property owned by Lord Alli (he pops up again, wonder what favours he's going to ask for?).

"However, she said donations had been "a feature of our politics for a very long time", with all MPs accepting gifts.

She argued donations were necessary because of the expense of running for office but said it was important politicians were transparent about where they had come from."

I do see where she is coming from and I see a lot of benefits in all parties (?) getting a sum from the tax payer to cover electionering, and that should be the limit (no doubt issues with that?). The hypocrisy is laughable though.

[Notsohumblepie]

Great, unexpected and brave post to come on and acknowledge the situation, by the sounds of it it’s been going on for years in the Labour Party which really doesn’t surprise me that they are all (all parties) at it. Really interested how this whole situation with Starmer and the rest will pan out in the next few weeks. IMO Starmer, Lammy, Rayner, Reeves. Gray etc are the worst officials ever in power and that’s saying something. God knows what the budget will bring.

In view of the David Lammy " Mastermind" answer that Henry the Eighth was succeeded by Henry the Seventh , I suppose we should be grateful that the chancellorship went elsewhere.