O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Med Pie]

Test

[Med Pie]

Has anyone got an explanation how Hamas built the tunnels under Gaza? I was astounded at their sophistication. This from last year: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISR...S/gkvldmzorvb/

Where did the money come from? How come with so many international aid bodies working in Palestine could they have been built? Seemingly under hospitals, schools and other civilian infrastructure. That's a lot of earth to move, a lot of equipment and infrastructure over decades. Since Hamas's raison d'etre is to destroy Israel how would you go about safeguarding yourself from them? I don't have an answer but they are clearly still there causing harm. All they have to do is declare peace, release the hostages and disband and the Israelis will have no choice but to stop and hopefully be pressured more so to quit creating new settlements.

Don't mean to be insulting but that is a very naive statement.

The HAMAS attack, aside from being an atrocity, was a massive error in judgement, it gave the Israelis the excuse they've waited twenty five years for. Israel has and will continue to, find every excuse to keep the aggression going until Gaza is empty of Arabs and occupied by Jews. Israel will also find any excuse to continue bombing Iran, WMD anybody?

An American politician recently suggested that Arab nations, collectively, give up land to create a Palestinian state. How about, instead, as Israel was pretty much an American construct, give up some American land in say, the 'bible belt' , that would end the middle East issue decisively and forever.

[Old_pie]

Don't mean to be insulting but that is a very naive statement.

The HAMAS attack, aside from being an atrocity, was a massive error in judgement, it gave the Israelis the excuse they've waited twenty five years for. Israel has and will continue to, find every excuse to keep the aggression going until Gaza is empty of Arabs and occupied by Jews. Israel will also find any excuse to continue bombing Iran, WMD anybody?

An American politician recently suggested that Arab nations, collectively, give up land to create a Palestinian state. How about, instead, as Israel was pretty much an American construct, give up some American land in say, the 'bible belt' , that would end the middle East issue decisively and forever.

You've skirted the question of how that infrastructure was put in place presumably under the noses of aid organisations. Iran, as opposed to the Persia that was once, is equally commited to the destruction of Israel. I can't speak for the benefits or otherwise of the creation of the state but the Jews seem to have done a lot more with the barren land than the Palestinians have. I don't understand the lack of pressure for the creation of a Palestinian state - perhaps this list of atrocities has made the powers that be cautious:

https://medium.com/@sigmaxavi/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by-muslims-against-jews-since-the-7th-century-0ff1a8eb0ad0

Do you not think that Jews have a right to a peaceful homeland in the area that is there spiritual home even if you don't necessarily believe that it is their "god given right"?

[Med Pie]

You've skirted the question of how that infrastructure was put in place presumably under the noses of aid organisations. Iran, as opposed to the Persia that was once, is equally commited to the destruction of Israel. I can't speak for the benefits or otherwise of the creation of the state but the Jews seem to have done a lot more with the barren land than the Palestinians have. I don't understand the lack of pressure for the creation of a Palestinian state - perhaps this list of atrocities has made the powers that be cautious:

https://medium.com/@sigmaxavi/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by-muslims-against-jews-since-the-7th-century-0ff1a8eb0ad0

Do you not think that Jews have a right to a peaceful homeland in the area that is there spiritual home even if you don't necessarily believe that it is their "god given right"?

I have no idea how the tunnels were built or funded or where all the soil went. the multiple Israeli observation posts missed it too it seems. Israel have done more with the land due to foreign investment and the influx of wealthy Jews from around the World whilst the Palestinians are still dirt poor.

Regarding a homeland for Jews, whilst Israel is located where it is, there will never be peace in the area. The Israelis are the aggressors in the main, committing atrocity after atrocity, just yesterday, settlers attacked Palestinians and three were killed as the World looks on and does nothing for the fear of being called antisemitic.

Israel has bullied the entire World, to the point that nobody dare criticise them and even if they do, Israel brushes it off as they know they have the Americans unconditional support.

What will happen in say a years time when Israel again tells us that Iran is on the verge of creating a bomb, will they attack again? Between them, the US and Israel seem to have redrawn international law where civilians are now cannon fodder, preemptive attacks on other states and targeted assassinations are ok and due to the protection from Trump, no war crimes will ever be prosecuted.

Trump is so corrupt, all he sees is reconstruction contracts for Yanks in Gaza, probably the same in Ukraine.

[Old_pie]

Between them, the US and Israel seem to have redrawn international law where civilians are now cannon fodder, preemptive attacks on other states and targeted assassinations are ok and due to the protection from Trump, no war crimes will ever be prosecuted.

Hamas seem to also be prepared to sacrifice as many as it takes to fight their unwinnable war.

[Med Pie]

Hamas seem to also be prepared to sacrifice as many as it takes to fight their unwinnable war.

And Israel seem prepared to kill civilians using flimsy excuses, often those who are queuing for food.

[Old_pie]

And Israel seem prepared to kill civilians using flimsy excuses, often those who are queuing for food.

Along with many others I'm not comfortable with Israel's actions though as you're not there you really cannot be so confident that the excuses are flimsy as you don't know how many Hamas are hiding behind the skirts of those clamouring for food. They only seem to come out in the open complete with weaponry when the media are there on the occasions hostages are released.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate.

So the Jews and the Christians who predate Islam have no rights to live in that area?

On the whole the Jews, Christians and as far as I know Philistines lived in relative peace post Christ. It was only 600+ years later that trouble arrived.

What influences your stance on this unholy mess?

[BanjoPie]

Well I started this record-breaking thread so I will now finish it. Thanks for all the post folks and it?s goodnight from me.

[The Dug Out]

Along with many others I'm not comfortable with Israel's actions though as you're not there you really cannot be so confident that the excuses are flimsy as you don't know how many Hamas are hiding behind the skirts of those clamouring for food. They only seem to come out in the open complete with weaponry when the media are there on the occasions hostages are released.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate.

So the Jews and the Christians who predate Islam have no rights to live in that area?

On the whole the Jews, Christians and as far as I know Philistines lived in relative peace post Christ. It was only 600+ years later that trouble arrived.

What influences your stance on this unholy mess?

Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate.

Of course,but it was Judeah well before they had it.

[BanjoPie]

Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate.

Of course,but it was Judeah well before they had it.

Why don’t you post this on the new site as hardly no-one left here to read it!

[chaincey.ncfc]

Well I started this record-breaking thread so I will now finish it. Thanks for all the post folks and it?s goodnight from me.

And it's goodnight from him

Goodnight

[Med Pie]

Along with many others I'm not comfortable with Israel's actions though as you're not there you really cannot be so confident that the excuses are flimsy as you don't know how many Hamas are hiding behind the skirts of those clamouring for food. They only seem to come out in the open complete with weaponry when the media are there on the occasions hostages are released.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate.

So the Jews and the Christians who predate Islam have no rights to live in that area?

On the whole the Jews, Christians and as far as I know Philistines lived in relative peace post Christ. It was only 600+ years later that trouble arrived.

What influences your stance on this unholy mess?

Aside from who is entitled on a historic basis going back a thousand years, to live on this land, Israel have noiw killed almost 60,000 people in Gaza. Crimes against humanity are being perpetrated every day, people being mown down whilst waiting for food who were perceived as a 'threat' by Israeli troops. I don't think 'warning' shots have ever been so deadly as they are in the hands of the IDF.

I've said, so many times, that HAMAS played right in to Israeli hands with their attack 7/10 and now, there is absolutely, no chance that Israel will not occupy this land, permanently.

Settlers are murdering Palestinians with impunity and plots of land have been on sale in Gaza for a long time in anticipation that Israel will occupy this land. Isn't it ironic that a country who suffered such crimes in the past, are ready to perpetrate the same on people today. Palestinians are being corralled in to a tiny area in preparation for their fairly certain expulsion, another mirror on Jewish history.

I'm sickened that the Yanks continue to supply arms to Israel who are aggressive bullies, attacking their neighbours at will, war mongers, side from Gaza, they've attacked Lebanon, Iraq and Iran, the Middle East will never see peace.

On a separate note, did you know that Israelis have a very bad 'rep' abroad, I've personally seen signs which say 'no Israelis' because they have such a bad reputation for causing trouble when they travel. Even where I now live, they are hated in the communities where they turn up, they never assimilate and have a poor reputation all round for their behaviour. We have one who lives near us, he's a multi millionaire with a driveway behind serious security gates which holds various 'supercars' and his sons are notorious for ripping through out tiny village doing 'doughnuts' and wheel spins'. My experience with them (and I've visited and worked in Israel) is that they are a very, arrogant people.

I subscribe to the opinion that anti Israeli is not anti-semite so please note that I use the term Israel / i not Jew.