O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[BanjoPie]

“And so the rats are jumping ship”

[Maggie's Farm]

“And so the rats are jumping ship”

Johnson’s policy chief Munira Mirza is probably the most surprising (she's worked for him since 2008):

“There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion. This was not the usual cut and thrust of politics; it was an inappropriate and partisan reference to a horrendous case of child ***ual abuse.”

[Maggie's Farm]

my point was that it is ultimately down to voters to do their homework on the various claims being made and determine for themselves what is true or untrue, and which side of the argument they ultimately accept.

caveat emptor, eh? this kind of proves the point of those that say demecratic politics is broken. when so many lie (even in the hofc), when lying is a central electoral strategy...

I said that there would be millions of Trump/Republican voters who are not racists and Q Anon conspiracy theorists, and that Biden would need to engage with as many of those disillusioned voters as he possible, rather than dismissing them or denigrating them. Mind you, Biden’s got his work cut out at the moment trying to retain the voters who did support him, let alone worrying about those who didn’t.

until the centre right can get some space between them and the all the different extreme right groups, they're unelectable. unfortunately for a robust democracy, the centre right have been purged from US politics.

[BanjoPie]

“And so the rats are jumping ship”

“Watch this space”

[magpie_mania]

“And so the rats are jumping ship”

Depends how you look at it really.

The Energy Minister said this morning that it shows how Johnson is in control and is starting the clear out and new start he announced.

And there was me thinking we had to wait for the Met Report.

Meanwhile Mr Sunak comes to the fore ..... mmm.

[BigFatPie]

I do mind, but I recognise it happens, especially during election/referendum campaigns when politicians on all sides are desperate for your vote and are most tempted to push the boundaries. Most of the time it’s ‘spin’ rather than outright untruths, but without doubt there are some easily disprovable claims.

This discussion was years ago around the time of the referendum but I think my point was that it is ultimately down to voters to do their homework on the various claims being made and determine for themselves what is true or untrue, and which side of the argument they ultimately accept.

I think the politicians of thirty or forty years ago were generally less likely to ‘spin’ than they are today. Many say the New Labour project changed political culture. Peter Mandelson was one of the first to be labelled a ‘spin doctor’, but to be fair you could credit him for realising how the media environment was changing, with the advent of 24-hour news, and realising the ever increasing importance of presentation and style, perhaps at the expense of substance. Labour had got nowhere under the Red Flag for a quarter of a century, but they re-branded to a Red Rose and hey presto, banked a load of soft Tory votes!



I said that there would be millions of Trump/Republican voters who are not racists and Q Anon conspiracy theorists, and that Biden would need to engage with as many of those disillusioned voters as he possible, rather than dismissing them or denigrating them. Mind you, Biden’s got his work cut out at the moment trying to retain the voters who did support him, let alone worrying about those who didn’t.

Ok, some revisionism there I think, but if you’re happy with that fair enough. Expecting enough voters to have the time/energy/inclination to sort out fact from fiction when they are literally bombarded with misinformation seems like a big ask to me.

The most salient point to come out of the last 6 years is that we’ve ended up with self imposed economic sanctions, 150,000+ covid dead, a lying sociopath as PM and most recently the biggest half arsed forced loan scheme in history to pay for rocketing energy bills and we should probably be asking ourselves how we avoid all this in the future.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Ok, some revisionism there I think, but if you’re happy with that fair enough. Expecting enough voters to have the time/energy/inclination to sort out fact from fiction when they are literally bombarded with misinformation seems like a big ask to me.

The most salient point to come out of the last 6 years is that we’ve ended up with self imposed economic sanctions, 150,000+ covid dead, a lying sociopath as PM and most recently the biggest half arsed forced loan scheme in history to pay for rocketing energy bills and we should probably be asking ourselves how we avoid all this in the future.

Simple ..vote labour.x

[i961pie]

Ok, some revisionism there I think, but if you’re happy with that fair enough. Expecting enough voters to have the time/energy/inclination to sort out fact from fiction when they are literally bombarded with misinformation seems like a big ask to me.

The most salient point to come out of the last 6 years is that we’ve ended up with self imposed economic sanctions, 150,000+ covid dead, a lying sociopath as PM and most recently the biggest half arsed forced loan scheme in history to pay for rocketing energy bills and we should probably be asking ourselves how we avoid all this in the future.

I agree with most of that but do you really believe 150,000+ All died OF covid?

[i961pie]

Even the ''non biased" BBC are at last saying after 2 years that many of the deaths are with covid not of covid.

[magpie_mania]

Even the ''non biased" BBC are at last saying after 2 years that many of the deaths are with covid not of covid.

How many were of Covid?

Total deaths in 2020 was 689,629. 2019 was 604,707.

2020 was the highest number of deaths since ...... 1918. Coincidence?

[BanjoPie]

I agree with most of that but do you really believe 150,000+ All died OF covid?

They all died ‘because’ of covid!

[Old_pie]

Even the ''non biased" BBC are at last saying after 2 years that many of the deaths are with covid not of covid.

That's more down to the BBC than anything else. The quality of investigative and in depth reporting on this issue goes to show that only 20% of people understand statistics whilst the other 95% are totally ignorant.

[BigFatPie]

I agree with most of that but do you really believe 150,000+ All died OF covid?

ONS figures but if there’s others you know about fire away.

[magpie_mania]

ONS figures but if there’s others you know about fire away.

How many do they say there were?

[BanjoPie]

Can we please keep this fred on topic!!