Can our decline be halted without a fan protest?

[millersmadman]

After sitting through the Blackpool debacle at NYS and 3-0 down at HT to Udders my 9yo grandson got up and said "Come on Grandad, let's go". "Sit down" I said "This is what supporting Rotherham is about, for every 3-0 win like Lincoln you'll have to endure times like these".

Yesterday, fighting a cold, on a 5 game losing streak and seeing the projected temperatures for tomorrow I said to him "Maybe we'll give the Peterborough game a miss on New Years Day?". "We're going Grandad, we're Rotherham fans!" came his reply. Obviously he listens to me too much

Educating him the right way, love it!

We're a victim of our own success in a way. We've had so many good times in the last ten years that the younger fans who haven't seen the strife of League Two, admin times expect success at the club. The balanced argument is that we absolutely aren't set up for that and that's my main gripe with Stewart. But there's no Bahraini billionaire coming in to buy a League One level fanbase with little room for growth, zero commercial potential, a cat 3 academy that has produced, at best, 5 EFL ready players in the last 10-15 years. A little bit of realism is needed, but it's not just a Rotherham United problem, it's a societal problem. Everyone expects the world for nothing these days.

Feel for Matt because the squad was poorly assembled, and he'll likely get very little assistance in amending it in Jan. He's in his first job, no experience previously, and he's going to make mistakes but that's not acceptable according to Rotherham fans, who expect him to be Pep Guardiola with this squad. He should have extra leeway given he's one of our own, but if anything, that's raised expectation and he's getting an even tighter leash. I don't understand the mentality, but each to their own.

[NorthWestCorner]

[QUOTE=Brin;40785059]

I wonder how different it is from Swillsborough or perhaps how long it will be before it gets there? There is no way we will end up like the Weds debacle so why even go there with a statement like that?

We have an absent chairman who doesn?’t want to or can?’t invest. If he steps away then what would happen? - He's absent by choice spending his time on a holiday. He's 81 next and probably thinks I'm doing this because I can. What's wrong with that?

After 15 years on spending his money on running RUFC and personally keeping us afloat, it is looking more likely he has now had enough and not looking to put more money into the club other than keeping it ticking over.

He won't just step away or what he owns in the club will return him nothing. Being the astute business man he is, he will find a suitable buyer to get his return.

We have no ground - it?’s owned by another company - Yet we all accepted this set up when the model was first presented to us and nothing was raised about it so, why question it now?

We have a squad that is incapable of competing in the league. I don't agree. We have a squad that is more than capable of playing well in this league and competing. We just haven't had a full squad to pick from all season apart from the opening few games. Call it bad luck, over worked in training, buying/loaning duds, that's football for you. No I don't like it either but, it sometimes falls this way and pisses you off, it's the highs and lows of being a Miller.

We have falling attendances. - You mean by the empty seats on home match days? The season tickets, circa 7000+ have been purchased this season so no, attendances haven't fallen it's just that some are choosing to stay away. Unless you are talking about floating fans

We have no future plan. - I'm with you on this one, as it appears we haven't because of TS looking to step down soon and Richard has no interest in taking over the reigns from him. Worrying times indeed, that are creating concern and unrest amongst us all.

We have an incompetent manager and senior team at the footballing level. - Incompetent? Stubborn with his set up? Unlucky in the fact his key players have not available for him to use for most of the season? It can be a combination of any of those scenarios but this is his first season as a Manager and he IS making mistakes as he develops his ideas and ways of what he feels are right.

He's no Pep that's for sure and he has to learn fast or it will soon be over for him. I feel we should let him see the January window out and see what happens going forward from there. Many new Managers fall at the first hurdle but hopefully things take a turn for the better in the new year. If he has to go so be it, it's football it happens all the time where a Manager gets sacked for not delivering. What's hurting more than anything is it is happening to us and that's why we are sharing this topic.

We have an incompetent management structure at the business level. - Totally agree and it should be looked at and overhauled asap but, both you and I know that won't happen while TS is still in charge.

We have very little non-football commercial revenue or indeed, a plan to develop this. - This has always been questioned and only TS can answer that. Empty units for 14 years, a complete embarrassment. The talk of making one unit into an restaurant/pub was initially held back by the council as it would have affected nearby other pubs etc but, that was a long time ago and those in charge have never had the foresight to develop anything and have lost out on a lot of revenue.

Outsourcing the catering side for money was also a big mistake. What it did do though was to provide instant revenue the club could instantly use on recruitment and general day to day running of RUFC. Did TS do right doing it that way?

Brin - I was asking a question(s) about our situation not making a statement. Although, I think we might not be as far away as you would like to believe.

TS's absence - I was not just commenting on his cruise. Where has he been for the last 6 months? Not a comment or a press statement. Absent at a fair few home matches and nowhere near his previous levels of away attendance.

Squad / Manager incompetence - at least one of these two statements is correct. Either the team arent up to it or the manager isnt - or maybe both. Either way, we cannot pretend the league table lies. We are half way through the season and we are in a very dangerous position. I cannot see how we will stop this decline but more importantly neither can MH. Asking for help in the last interview was weak and demonstrates he is not in control.

Declining attendance - what a nonsense response! Indeed the season tickets have been sold but I will point out two things. Firstly, in this model, people can simply cancel their direct debit and cut off the payment. You are blind if you think that is not already happening. Secondly, even if it isnt, do you think those fans will come back next year?

Finally on the manager - sorry, but we are not a training scheme for MH. If he had shown any signs he was improving then I would be up for continuing but he isnt. He is spiralling out of control. Of most concern is his recruitment. The permanents he has signed are shockingly poor, aside from Hall as I have mentioned before. The loans are also inconceivably bad. Holmes, Etete, Sherrif, to name a few. The only competent player we have in the team were signed by previous managers. And, to add more, he also believes that Hugill has done well for him.....an unbelievable assessment for someone who has score one goal in 35 appearances. 35 appearances at league one level!!!!!!!

[Stovicmiller]

I agree Yak and what makes me smile is those people who, on another thread, have said they won't be going tomorrow because the team is going through a bad patch and it's going to be cold are the same ones who expect a rich investor to buy TS out and turn everything round.
One of them (RU66) is always banging on that we should extend the stadium.
You couldn't make it up!

. We are going through a bad patch but this is the third poor season we’ve had on the bounce. Our club is rudderless with no leadership from the top . The training ground is clearly not up for purpose. The Sheffield teams call us tinpot and we are . By the way I’ll be going to both home games.

[UlleyMiller]

Protest? Protest what? Dips in form?

Boo... down with this sort of thing... etc.

Fu**ing hell, some of our fans 😂😂

[Townerslovechild]

The trouble is these days,there is zero patience for anything,and it`s sooooo easy to be critical of people.
Ronnie Moore was recently crowned our greatest ever manager,which I would broadly agree with,and yet it took him 3 years,yes 3 whole years to get out of the 4th division.
I would say at the time Ronnie wasn`t much more experienced than MH,but yet there`s plenty on here want him gone already,quite a few took against him before a ball was even kicked !
Evans got nearly a full season before we got shut,surely a new manager with some good ideas should be given the same ?

[Yak]

The trouble is these days,there is zero patience for anything,and it`s sooooo easy to be critical of people.
Ronnie Moore was recently crowned our greatest ever manager,which I would broadly agree with,and yet it took him 3 years,yes 3 whole years to get out of the 4th division.
I would say at the time Ronnie wasn`t much more experienced than MH,but yet there`s plenty on here want him gone already,quite a few took against him before a ball was even kicked !
Evans got nearly a full season before we got shut,surely a new manager with some good ideas should be given the same ?

Ok let?s say you are correct.
If we lose the next 2 badly do we let him carry on and get us relegated?
Is that acceptable as he?s learning or not?
Not having a rant just interested in this long term patience theory how long is long term?

[the_idiotb_stardson]

The protest wouldnt be about a dip in form.It would be about the disconnect between fans and the club, the lack of communication from the club regarding a vision for the future, the ageing heirarchy who are clearly out of touch and a transfer policy which seems to take pity on players who are injury prone. Also the fact that many fans feel like they are taken for granted.

[mellowmiller]

I'd love to know how much say any of our recent managers have had in recruitment. I have a suspicion that Rob Scott may be far more influential than we realise.
Harry Redknapp said recently that it's becoming the norm for recruiters to call the shots and managers are then expected to work with what they are given.

[Heliosphan78]

I'd love to know how much say any of our recent managers have had in recruitment. I have a suspicion that Rob Scott may be far more influential than we realise.
Harry Redknapp said recently that it's becoming the norm for recruiters to call the shots and managers are then expected to work with what they are given.

You might be right but I can't think for one minute that Rob Scott would be telling Steve Evans who he can or cannot sign. Can you see that as a scenario? I personally can't.

[mellowmiller]

You might be right but I can't think for one minute that Rob Scott would be telling Steve Evans who he can or cannot sign. Can you see that as a scenario? I personally can't.

It does seem unlikely but I'm not sure because SE made the odd cryptic comment that suggested he wasn't particularly happy with the process at times.

[Derbymiller]

The issue with MH for me is his stubbornness, he will not change his approach and plays players that are not playing well, and plays players out of position even when injuries don’t require him to. It is said we expect him to be PEP what an exaggeration, there are many footballing managers that can get their team above the relegation zone who are not PEP, there are many managers that learn to change and see their mistakes.

I do not expect MH to be PEP, I do expect him to keep us in L1 and be seen not to make the same mistakes week in and week out. A lot of modern managers think they are PEP or go on their UEFA training and expect to be able to apply the theory in any situation. Doing the same thing week in and week out and expecting a different outcome is not smart, we have some decent ball players so why give 80% to 90% of the ball from our keeper to their center backs?

The next two games will be interesting to see if the discussions between players and management the other day has made any difference at all. He has to keep it simple, four at the back use our fullbacks as fullbacks and put one or two in front of those four and make us difficult to score against, that would be a start.

[Brin]

The trouble is these days,there is zero patience for anything,and it`s sooooo easy to be critical of people.
Ronnie Moore was recently crowned our greatest ever manager,which I would broadly agree with,and yet it took him 3 years,yes 3 whole years to get out of the 4th division.
I would say at the time Ronnie wasn`t much more experienced than MH,but yet there`s plenty on here want him gone already,quite a few took against him before a ball was even kicked !
Evans got nearly a full season before we got shut,surely a new manager with some good ideas should be given the same ?

Totally agree, too early yet to have him dismissed. Things take time, injuries in abundance, relatively new in his first full managerial role. Don't know about you but I said I'd be happy with a mid table finish and I still feel he can pull this off.

[RU66]

The protest wouldnt be about a dip in form.It would be about the disconnect between fans and the club, the lack of communication from the club regarding a vision for the future, the ageing heirarchy who are clearly out of touch and a transfer policy which seems to take pity on players who are injury prone. Also the fact that many fans feel like they are taken for granted.

Been same for the last 3 seasons empty promises. More empty seats as each of those go by. Nothing coming from the club to suggest that can change anytime soon.

[Brin]

[QUOTE=NorthWestCorner;40785063]

Brin - I was asking a question(s) about our situation not making a statement. Although, I think we might not be as far away as you would like to believe.

TS's absence - I was not just commenting on his cruise. Where has he been for the last 6 months? Not a comment or a press statement. Absent at a fair few home matches and nowhere near his previous levels of away attendance.

Squad / Manager incompetence - at least one of these two statements is correct. Either the team arent up to it or the manager isnt - or maybe both. Either way, we cannot pretend the league table lies. We are half way through the season and we are in a very dangerous position. I cannot see how we will stop this decline but more importantly neither can MH. Asking for help in the last interview was weak and demonstrates he is not in control.

Declining attendance - what a nonsense response! Indeed the season tickets have been sold but I will point out two things. Firstly, in this model, people can simply cancel their direct debit and cut off the payment. You are blind if you think that is not already happening. Secondly, even if it isnt, do you think those fans will come back next year?

Finally on the manager - sorry, but we are not a training scheme for MH. If he had shown any signs he was improving then I would be up for continuing but he isnt. He is spiralling out of control. Of most concern is his recruitment. The permanents he has signed are shockingly poor, aside from Hall as I have mentioned before. The loans are also inconceivably bad. Holmes, Etete, Sherrif, to name a few. The only competent player we have in the team were signed by previous managers. And, to add more, he also believes that Hugill has done well for him.....an unbelievable assessment for someone who has score one goal in 35 appearances. 35 appearances at league one level!!!!!!!

NWC, my apologies as I completely forgot some pay on D/D and like you say, may have well cancelled theirs. Neither of us know this and I was just going off some on here, saying although they've paid for a S/T but they are no longer attending or thinking of not attending for the foreseeable future.

[Townerslovechild]

Totally agree, too early yet to have him dismissed. Things take time, injuries in abundance, relatively new in his first full managerial role. Don't know about you but I said I'd be happy with a mid table finish and I still feel he can pull this off.

Before a ball was kicked,given all the changes,then yes,mid table would have been fine,as long as we are playing with some passion,and there seemed to be some long term planing.....ie,some younger players with a future value.
This is pretty much what MH has been saying all season,so I am prepared to give a proper chance to achieve this,short term pain for a long term gain.
But football is almost all results these days,and I fear he won`t be given enough time for this to work.