O/T. A question (or three) for the TDS sufferers.

[Yak]

And your focus on a person doing their job who may or may not have got it wrong? See raging it’s easy to look at one side of the argument isn’t it?
It’s possible both could be wrong or right but it didn’t need to happen if I had an armed state representative who was armed told me to stop I would. It’s basic common sense. Why didn’t she stop ? Oh yes above the law. It’s tragic what happened but it didn’t need to.

[animallittle3]

In your opinion, what specifically was this agitator's action that justified her being shot in the head?

I think with respect raging we need to factor in context when we are debating tragic events such as this and it is a tragic event .

Law enforcement in the US is a different beast compared to the UK given the amount of guns that are in circulation over there and any obstacles that are encountered by law enforcement officers on US streets given the risks are dealt with accordingly .

It's not normal for the London Met to put 7 bullets in the head of a Brazilian walking to a tube station but that's what happened in July 2005 , the contex however plays out that this was 2 days after the London bombing terror attacks and the city was on high alert and police officers mistakingly took Jean Charles De Menezes as a terror suspect .

The head of the DPP Keir Starmer didn't prosecute the officer(s) involved and The European Court Of Human Rights didn't find any case to answer either despite the fact an innocent man received 7 bullets to the head in broad daylight on a London street .

Renee Nicole Good's death is probably not justified but context may help us understand why it happened as opposed to Trump's opponents using it as a feeding frenzy to make political capital .

[Yak]

I think with respect raging we need to factor in context when we are debating tragic events such as this and it is a tragic event .

Law enforcement in the US is a different beast compared to the UK given the amount of guns that are in circulation over there and any obstacles that are encountered by law enforcement officers on US streets given the risks are dealt with accordingly .

It's not normal for the London Met to put 7 bullets in the head of a Brazilian walking to a tube station but that's what happened in July 2005 , the contex however plays out that this was 2 days after the London bombing terror attacks and the city was on high alert and police officers mistakingly took Jean Charles De Menezes as a terror suspect .

The head of the DPP Keir Starmer didn't prosecute the officer(s) involved and The European Court Of Human Rights didn't find any case to answer either despite the fact an innocent man received 7 bullets to the head in broad daylight on a London street .

Renee Nicole Good's death is probably not justified but context may help us understand why it happened as opposed to Trump's opponents using it as a feeding frenzy to make political capital .

There is no context for some people. Videos on social media is proof that one is guilty one is innocent.
That’s why I references George Floyd moral outrage without all the facts. He and the other person didn’t deserve to die that’s true.
However context matters unfortunately to some in this case it’s an opportunity to display moral outrage to suit an agenda.

[KerrAvon]

1. Was she murdered?

2. Did the agent act in self defense?

3. Had you been in his shoes, what would you have done?

I’ve seen several clips. Not just the carefully curated material put out by the American state and its supporters.

1. Had this happened in the UK I would expect the officer to be charged with murder. If I were then given the gig to defend, I would not think it an impossible case. Subject to what instructions he gave me, there are two obvious arguments:

i) He acted instinctively and with no time to judge his actions to a nicety.

ii) The issue here was systemic rather than down to the individual; if a state puts poorly trained, armed men on the street with an ill-defined role, and allows them to wear face coverings and not display identifying marks such as ‘collar numbers’ and then tells them to ‘go hard’, what do you think is going to happen?

I would expect to lose, however, because any decent prosecutor would point out that two of the shots were fired when the agent was to the side of the vehicle and with there being no risk to him as a consequence. In fact, that wouldn’t just point that out. They’d hammer him with it.

2. See above.

3. Taken one step backwards and not drawn my weapon.

[KerrAvon]

I think with respect raging we need to factor in context when we are debating tragic events such as this and it is a tragic event .

Law enforcement in the US is a different beast compared to the UK given the amount of guns that are in circulation over there and any obstacles that are encountered by law enforcement officers on US streets given the risks are dealt with accordingly .

It's not normal for the London Met to put 7 bullets in the head of a Brazilian walking to a tube station but that's what happened in July 2005 , the contex however plays out that this was 2 days after the London bombing terror attacks and the city was on high alert and police officers mistakingly took Jean Charles De Menezes as a terror suspect .

The head of the DPP Keir Starmer didn't prosecute the officer(s) involved and The European Court Of Human Rights didn't find any case to answer either despite the fact an innocent man received 7 bullets to the head in broad daylight on a London street .

Renee Nicole Good's death is probably not justified but context may help us understand why it happened as opposed to Trump's opponents using it as a feeding frenzy to make political capital .

The Met officers misidentified Jean Charles de Menezes and thought that was carrying a bomb into a tube station two weeks after the 7/7 bombings. If you can draw an equivalence between that situation and a woman trying to drive away from a man wearing a face covering who was angry (judging by his language) and demanding that she stop her car then - and I say this kindly- you need to go and sit in darkened room and give your head a wobble for a few minutes.

Given the blindingly obvious difference between the two situations, the officers who shot de Menezes were not charged. The Metropolitan Police were charged and convicted under Health and Safety legislation for the inadequacies of their operation, however. What chance do you think there are of the American state being held to account given their initial reaction was to slur Renee Good as a domestic terrorist and to lie that the ICE officer had been hospitalised and was lucky to be alive. That knocks the Orgreave cover up into a cocked hat don?t you think?

[KerrAvon]

Agreed it?’s sickening that people act and then play the victim George Floyd anyone a career criminal that held a pregnant woman at gunpoint had statues built.
She made a choice she didn't deserve to die but unfortunately she chose to ignore an instruction.
Left wing thinking means actions are ok if I think it?’s ok.
A sad loss of life but didn?’t need to happen it?’s sickening I agree.

In the UK people who rioted outside hotels were celebrated by ‘the right' as victims of ‘two tier justice’ when they were calmly arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. A woman who invited her sizeable social media following to set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers got an interview on GB News and a place on the stage at a Reform Party conference. And yet you single out ‘the left’ as people who thinks that ‘actions are ok if I think it’s ok’...

Renee Good can't play the victim in the way that Lucy Connolly does, because Renee Good is dead.

Where is the evidence that Good was a professional agitator?

[Yak]

In the UK people who rioted outside hotels were celebrated by ‘the right' as victims of ‘two tier justice’ when they were calmly arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. A woman who invited her sizeable social media following to set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers got an interview on GB News and a place on the stage at a Reform Party conference. And yet you single out ‘the left’ as people who thinks that ‘actions are ok if I think it’s ok’...

Renee Good can't play the victim in the way that Lucy Connolly does, because Renee Good is dead.

Where is the evidence that Good was a professional agitator?

I was responding to a situation where someone is clearly left wing. I?ve criticised Tommy Robinson before who is clearly right wing. I?ll call it as I see it.
As far evidence of the victim I?ll let this play out and see what comes out over the coming weeks.
This didn?t need to and shouldn?t have happened. It?s possible 2 different people were both wrong.

[Shark27]

The Met officers misidentified Jean Charles de Menezes and thought that was carrying a bomb into a tube station two weeks after the 7/7 bombings. If you can draw an equivalence between that situation and a woman trying to drive away from a man wearing a face covering who was angry (judging by his language) and demanding that she stop her car then - and I say this kindly- you need to go and sit in darkened room and give your head a wobble for a few minutes.

Wasn?t the same officer dragged by a car for 100 yards 6 months earlier?

[Eternal Optimist]

Here's another angle.


https://x.com/i/status/2009626062884401525

[ragingpup]

I saw a very different angle from behind the car and it looked very different to the one EO posted. It appears that there are some versions that are being tampered, speeded up and likely adjusted so quite hard to get conclusive. This video shows analysis from different angles:

https://news.sky.com/video/videos-from-shooting-of-woman-by-ice-agent-in-minneaplois-analysied-13492225

Kerr pretty much said everything I would say in response to Yak and animal. My initial response was disgust based on the viewing of images that pretty much correlated with what the analysis in this video link and apologies Yak, it was 6am emotive response. Like Floyd I would expect that it will come out in the wash and the ice cop will be tried for murder but guess there'll be a lot of angles viewed and not sure how conclusive it can be. At least hopefully they won't be using clearly adjusted video footage(which this link suggests the president is presenting).

[Yak]

I saw a very different angle from behind the car and it looked very different to the one EO posted. It appears that there are some versions that are being tampered, speeded up and likely adjusted so quite hard to get conclusive. This video shows analysis from different angles:

https://news.sky.com/video/videos-from-shooting-of-woman-by-ice-agent-in-minneaplois-analysied-13492225

Kerr pretty much said everything I would say in response to Yak and animal. My initial response was disgust based on the viewing of images that pretty much correlated with what the analysis in this video link and apologies Yak, it was 6am emotive response. Like Floyd I would expect that it will come out in the wash and the ice cop will be tried for murder but guess there'll be a lot of angles viewed and not sure how conclusive it can be. At least hopefully they won't be using clearly adjusted video footage(which this link suggests the president is presenting).

No apologies necessary raging. It?s opinions on what we have seen/ know so far. Justice should prevail and clarity and fairness must be ensured.
We both agree this shouldn?t have happened.

[Scum-Triumphant]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/veterans-furious-as-donald-trump-claims-british-troops-stayed-off-the-front-lines-in-afghanistan/ar-AA1ULZWv

457 British Soldiers landed in Brize Norton in coffins draped in Union Jscks.
Starmer, find your *******s and demand an apology on their and their families behalf.
You may find people might begin to believe you?re fit for the job.

[UlleyMiller]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...an/ar-AA1ULZWv

457 British Soldiers landed in Brize Norton in coffins draped in Union Jscks.
Starmer, find your *******s and demand an apology on their and their families behalf.
You may find people might begin to believe you?re fit for the job.

The internet clearly divides people and in the main it's rare to see anyone accept that something/someone they once supported/endorsed has become a problem, but...

... I wonder if there are limits to how far people are willing to defend/support/endorse Trump and his cronies. Do people have boundaries when it comes to morality? Do they need to feel personally threatened before accepting things are going in the wrong direction?

(Post not aimed at Scum BTW)

[Brin]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...an/ar-AA1ULZWv

457 British Soldiers landed in Brize Norton in coffins draped in Union Jscks.
Starmer, find your *******s and demand an apology on their and their families behalf.
You may find people might begin to believe you?re fit for the job.

The man's deranged and his clearly offending outbursts are not given thought and just shot off the hip. He thinks he's untouchable with anything he does, I totally loathe the man. At 79 years old his brain his probably failing him.

Should he serve as as President until January 20th 2029, end of his second term, he will be 82 years of age, does any American seriously want an degenerate octogenarian running their country at that age?

[mygiddypant]

OT The British soldiers "held a little back"

There are numerous Trump supporters on this site. The misogyny, *** offences, racism, bullying, etc have not been enough to deter them from supporting the gobshyte.

The far-right is also quick to raise their support for British war veterans when it suits their purpose.

So, my question is, in light of the Commander-in-Chief?s claims that British soldiers ?stayed a little back? from the front line in Afghanistan, what does it take to make you question your support?

There were 457 British deaths in Afghanistan, in a total of 3,486 coalition troops.
Trump avoided call up for Vietnam due to ?bone spurs?. Neither of his sons has served in the military.

This what one father of a veteran thinks -

https://x.com/neillancaster66/status/2014448786689454297

I can't find fault with Neil's response. Can you?