Lee Clark

[Back of the net]

For me, its accountability only with the manager and his staff. No decent manager of people just squawks to other people about poor performance from the people they are paid to manage. If players aren't performing on a daily basis as you want them to perform, you deal with that directly with the player and in most cases an excellent person manager will get great results from their staff. Poor managers will get poor results. No one else is responsible, and am worried that Clark feels that his players are.

Warnock, Jose M, Daglish to name a few over the years called players out. Are you saying these weren’t decent managers ?
He’s been here two minutes and is saying what supporters who go to games have been saying for a long time.
Are you saying those supporters who go to games and the person most close to this is wrong too?
MH alluded to some of the players not putting it in and poor injury record was he wrong too?

[ragingpup]

Warnock, Jose M, Daglish to name a few over the years called players out. Are you saying these weren’t decent managers ?
He’s been here two minutes and is saying what supporters who go to games have been saying for a long time.
Are you saying those supporters who go to games and the person most close to this is wrong too?
MH alluded to some of the players not putting it in and poor injury record was he wrong too?

I'm saying that a good manager sets the expectations, guides players on what they need to do in and out of club time monitors their fitness levels and conditioning and importantly intervenes if they are not at the levels you have clearly communicated you are looking for. This includes calling them out if they are repeatedly not responding and this is what Warnock et al have done.

The difference I am trying to get over here is that Clarke is clearly identifying a cultural issue (ie. its systematic, affecting many players) and whilst players have to take their share of responsibility if they are letting standards drop, it is the same in any walk of life that if 1) standards aren't clearly communicated 2) standards are clearly monitored 3) actions are quickly taken if standards are not upheld, it is the nature of people (whether we like it or not) that they will fall below the standards required for a role.

I'm not saying that supporters or anyone is wrong, I'm actually agreeing with them/you. But we are identifying the outcome, systematic poor performance in job roles. What were disagreeing in is the root cause for that. And I would argue that until we get an excellent manager (not easy to find, were talking about very highly levels of performance at this level of pro sport with lots of complexities) who realises that it is their responsibility for the culture and for player's performance in their roles, we are likely to see the same outcomes over and over. We can blame this group of players all you like and get in another bunch, but without the above standards being monitored and reinforced by good man management, the next bunch will likely repeat the same outcomes.

[Back of the net]

I'm saying that a good manager sets the expectations, guides players on what they need to do in and out of club time monitors their fitness levels and conditioning and importantly intervenes if they are not at the levels you have clearly communicated you are looking for. This includes calling them out if they are repeatedly not responding and this is what Warnock et al have done.

The difference I am trying to get over here is that Clarke is clearly identifying a cultural issue (ie. its systematic, affecting many players) and whilst players have to take their share of responsibility if they are letting standards drop, it is the same in any walk of life that if 1) standards aren't clearly communicated 2) standards are clearly monitored 3) actions are quickly taken if standards are not upheld, it is the nature of people (whether we like it or not) that they will fall below the standards required for a role.

I'm not saying that supporters or anyone is wrong, I'm actually agreeing with them/you. But we are identifying the outcome, systematic poor performance in job roles. What we?re disagreeing in is the root cause for that. And I would argue that until we get an excellent manager (not easy to find, were talking about very highly levels of performance at this level of pro sport with lots of complexities) who realises that it is their responsibility for the culture and for player's performance in their roles, we are likely to see the same outcomes over and over. We can blame this group of players all you like and get in another bunch, but without the above standards being monitored and reinforced by good man management, the next bunch will likely repeat the same outcomes.

Makes perfect sense raging what you have written. He?s been here 2 minutes though so imo you are being too harsh with your views on him.
I?m not sure if he?s the man long term but he?s correct to call them out imo.

[ragingpup]

Makes perfect sense raging what you have written. He?s been here 2 minutes though so imo you are being too harsh with your views on him.
I?m not sure if he?s the man long term but he?s correct to call them out imo.

To be absolutely clear, I am not judging Clarke - as you say he's only been here 3 weeks and any manager would need longer than that to make an impact. My only worry (and it is a very big worry) is that Clarke is pointing the finger of responsibility completely at the players when to me, the large numbers of people failing to meet the basics of their job description as professional atheletes is a cultural one, and management are fully responsible for the culture and performance of the staff. I'd be more reassured if he was highlighting that.

Maybe he doesn't feel he can? Maybe the culture of poor performance is coming from above the management team, but Warne showed that in the context of our senior management culture, a team manager could manage the staff and players to achieve probably to the max of their capabilities.

[ilikecarling]

If anyone says we haven’t got worse under Clarke they are talking absolute garbage. We couldn’t defend under Hamshaw but now we can’t defend or look threatening going forward under Clarke. 1 goal in 4 and a half games and that was a 90th minute penalty. Going down without so much as a whimper. May as well have left Hamshaw in charge until the end of the season as Clarke has brought nothing apart from a few digs at the players. Hopefully he’s not here next season.

[MillerBill]

If Stewart's still here next season, we are guaranteed Non league.

[great_fire]

If anyone says we haven’t got worse under Clarke they are talking absolute garbage. We couldn’t defend under Hamshaw but now we can’t defend or look threatening going forward under Clarke. 1 goal in 4 and a half games and that was a 90th minute penalty. Going down without so much as a whimper. May as well have left Hamshaw in charge until the end of the season as Clarke has brought nothing apart from a few digs at the players. Hopefully he’s not here next season.

You're probably right, zero shots on target.

[Derbymiller]

LC not sure he is the man to be honest who is? We need PD, RS sacked on Wednesday morning, that fitness clown and so called medical staff out within 24 hours of the season ending, every player out of contract out, Nombe sold and start a fresh. Being the TS can't be bothered to talk to the fans and uses others to hide behind tells you a lot about him as a person. You wouldn't want to be in the trenches with captain Darling would you.

[Derbymiller]

LC not sure he is the man to be honest who is? We need PD, RS sacked on Wednesday morning, that fitness clown and so called medical staff out within 24 hours of the season ending, every player out of contract out, Nombe sold and start a fresh. Being the TS can't be bothered to talk to the fans and uses others to hide behind tells you a lot about him as a person. You wouldn't want to be in the trenches with captain Darling would you.

[Old_time_miller]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when Evans left last season weren't we in a position of relative safety. Hamshaw he's reversed that this season. Before season started I questioned some of his signings. Martha, Benson & Yearwood for 3.

I?d agree with one thing. Some awful signings. I?d have never took benson. But think why he was taken. Probably cheap and like all signings, isn?t that more than one person?s decision inc medical. Don?t forget the cheque book holder.

We were on a massive downhill slope and way too close to the drop. Performance immediately took an upturn you are forgetting that.

No arguments about how this season has gone. But we all have different views as to why.

[Old_time_miller]

At this present time the club is in disarray. Things have fallen apart for 3 years. Not surprisingly things end up here.

Clarke knows nothing about this club, he is seeing it from one angle only fresh off retirement. What he has seen and been unwisely public about will have a lot of things to do with it. He has been very unwise in my view. But, they in the majority will be gone and he may still be here come the summer. So, it has been a cheap shot.

Whether these tactical changes he now talks about, which haven’t done anything to change things and looks to have made things worse, if used on a different set of players would work?

Seems to me that clarke from what we have seen and heard would be a risk, volatile risk, apparently he has supposed to have mellowed.
Perhaps that is a good job!

If players have not responded, why? If he muddled a tired and dejected squad further that would have been a big error.
Chances are the past games would have been the same. Problem is it is all getting heaped on the players ant to me looks like deflection.

Defection from himself.
Defection from the club.
Defection from 3 years.

Question is, will stewart be happy with it, has he sanctioned it? If not, the whole club is by his statements been dragged into it.
They are all in the boat. And as richardson found out, you do not want to rock it.

He has without knowing it attacked the whole club. Messengers tend to get shot.

[Old_time_miller]

At this present time the club is in disarray. Things have fallen apart for 3 years. Not surprisingly things end up here.

Clarke knows nothing about this club, he is seeing it from one angle only fresh off retirement. What he has seen and been unwisely public about will have a lot of things to do with it. He has been very unwise in my view. But, they in the majority will be gone and he may still be here come the summer. So, it has been a cheap shot.

Whether these tactical changes he now talks about, which haven’t done anything to change things and looks to have made things worse, if used on a different set of players would work?

Seems to me that clarke from what we have seen and heard would be a risk, volatile risk, apparently he has supposed to have mellowed.
Perhaps that is a good job!

If players have not responded, why? If he muddled a tired and dejected squad further that would have been a big error.
Chances are the past games would have been the same. Problem is it is all getting heaped on the players ant to me looks like deflection.

Defection from himself.
Defection from the club.
Defection from 3 years.

Question is, will stewart be happy with it, has he sanctioned it? If not, the whole club is by his statements been dragged into it.
They are all in the boat. And as richardson found out, you do not want to rock it.

He has without knowing it attacked the whole club. Messengers tend to get shot.

[Old_time_miller]

Just seen his post match interview. I’m even more puzzled than before how to take the situation. He certainly wears his heart on his sleeve I will say that. He now sounds even more like a man on his own. Last week he said he and stewart get on well and talk all the time.
But there is new references to “looking at everything” suddenly. He seemed nervous when questioned about staying, reply was he wants a job somewhere.

He sounds like he expected to get a response at least on some level. Does this add yet more on the squad or not? Adding it got hamshaw the sack and may be he will?

It’s not me, it’s them….sounds like it’s not me it’s my manager I chose. I wouldn’t bet on anything happening now.

Time for a club statement. And not the one we were expecting. Of clarke is to stay, we need an appointment now. If it is to be someone else, then they should be looking, now.

Statement. Manager, player situations. Intentions. All now, BEFORE they announce season tickets.

I think clarke deserves that just as much as we do.

[Stansmate]

He looks and sounds well cheesed off !

100% agree with his comments - so much wrong - players with 5 or 6 different injuries but one. Cant see TS and his gang liking the critisism. They need to bloody wake up cos it seems they don?t care.

I like him but if another job comes up , if I were him it would be Adios ! N

[the_idiotb_stardson]

He looks and sounds well cheesed off !

100% agree with his comments - so much wrong - players with 5 or 6 different injuries but one. Cant see TS and his gang liking the critisism. They need to bloody wake up cos it seems they don?t care.

I like him but if another job comes up , if I were him it would be Adios ! N

Could he do a Jacket and walk?