O/T John Healey resigns

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

John Healey the defence secretary has resigned, after Prime Minister Kear Starmer would not allocate more money to our National Defence.
Starmer is living in cuckoo land, along with sidekick Ed Millaband.
Millaband will probably come up with the idea of putting machine gunners on the windfarm pylons.

[Jocksgloves1]

Good, he's my MP. Might see him more round here now.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

Good, he's my MP. Might see him more round here now.

Saw John Healey & his body guard last Friday, when I was sat outside wetherspoons at
Wath - on - Dearne

[Stansmate]

We become more of a joke every day - this is without doubt the most incompetent bunch in my lifetime and thats 6 decades.

No one one with a clue and nxt weeks local election will be a turning point - why oh why would anyone think Andy Burn****e would be any better !!!

[Timbertop]

Burnham will win because Restore will pinch too much of the Reform vote but if Burnham is the answer what on earth is the question ?! A bigger narcissist than you know who !

[ragingpup]

Burnham will win because Restore will pinch too much of the Reform vote but if Burnham is the answer what on earth is the question ?! A bigger narcissist than you know who !

The progressive vote is split 3 ways though, between Labour, Greens and Lib Dems (who've morphed to become more progressive than Labour!). So not sure the split vote is that much of an excuse for any reform defeat. I think Burnham, if he does win, will do so laregly because many of the local voters have largely approved of his work as Mayor.

[Spuddy Speight]

Consider this... just hyperthetical mind ....
So, Andy Burnham wins the seat in Makerfield and becomes an MP. He then joins the race for the leadership of the Labour Party. He'll be up against current PM, Sir Keir Starmer. Burnham will need the support of many other MPs to get him over the winning line.
Sir Keir Starmer will win the race as lots of Labour MPs won't want anyone, including Andy Burnham to rock the status quo. So, they, Labour MPs, will return Sir Keir Starmer as their Leader and PM to continue limping along inside number 10.

Caveat to the above is that several more members of the Cabinet might resign and Sir Keir Starmer's position as PM then becomes untenable. Starmer then requests an appointment with the King, Parliament is dissolved and a General Election is called.

[Brin]

Consider this... just hyperthetical mind ....
So, Andy Burnham wins the seat in Makerfield and becomes an MP. He then joins the race for the leadership of the Labour Party. He'll be up against current PM, Sir Keir Starmer. Burnham will need the support of many other MPs to get him over the winning line.
Sir Keir Starmer will win the race as lots of Labour MPs won't want anyone, including Andy Burnham to rock the status quo. So, they, Labour MPs, will return Sir Keir Starmer as their Leader and PM to continue limping along inside number 10.

Caveat to the above is that several more members of the Cabinet might resign and Sir Keir Starmer's position as PM then becomes untenable. Starmer then requests an appointment with the King, Parliament is dissolved and a General Election is called.

Spud, and who do you think would get in? I think it would be a split cabinet then it's a real mess.

Or.......Reform smash Labour as the general pop have had enough but, what would Farage bring? I think more utter chaos. You can forget about the Tories getting back in as the damage they caused has left a long massive scar and will take years to mend.

[Stovicmiller]

What about the tit whisper , all drugs made legal, millions of migrants let in each year, no illegal migrant would be deported and some given priority over British people on social housing, tax the rich, get rid of our nuclear weapons ( if they work) and have a no offence defence policy. Getting into bed with the Muslims strange bedfellows.

[MillerBill]

The progressive vote is split 3 ways though, between Labour, Greens and Lib Dems (who've morphed to become more progressive than Labour!). So not sure the split vote is that much of an excuse for any reform defeat. I think Burnham, if he does win, will do so laregly because many of the local voters have largely approved of his work as Mayor.

The Islamic take over of the Green Party and the clueless Lib Dems will have little effect.Burnham is being caught out and flipflops as much as Starmer.Labour are putting everything behind Burnham, in this election thinking it is their last chance.Unfortunately with Healey resigning because they cannot fund our Defence capabilities,this is sending alarm bells ringing and today's figure showing that the economy has shrunk,just adds to the chaos the govt.is in.Under Burnham,Rayner or Milliband this would get much much worse.Defence could have had an injection of funds had the govt.reduced the bloated Wefare bill,earlier this year but the far left backbenchers voted against it.It cannot continue like this borrowing money to fund the Welfare,that's before we get on to all the billions going on the illegal migrants coming over.The country is in a mess !!!!!!!!!

[ragingpup]

The Islamic take over of the Green Party and the clueless Lib Dems will have little effect.Burnham is being caught out and flipflops as much as Starmer.Labour are putting everything behind Burnham, in this election thinking it is their last chance.Unfortunately with Healey resigning because they cannot fund our Defence capabilities,this is sending alarm bells ringing and today's figure showing that the economy has shrunk,just adds to the chaos the govt.is in.Under Burnham,Rayner or Milliband this would get much much worse.Defence could have had an injection of funds had the govt.reduced the bloated Wefare bill,earlier this year but the far left backbenchers voted against it.It cannot continue like this borrowing money to fund the Welfare,that's before we get on to all the billions going on the illegal migrants coming over.The country is in a mess !!!!!!!!!

I think you're about right that we could have saved enough from the governments proposed changes to fund the increase that Healey was looking for. But what labour MPs have to do is balance out the presssure they feel from their constituents about what they would lose on a personal level (majority in cuts to PIP claims, which effects a lot of people, most of whom are working, like my wife) vs the pressures from their constituents about lack of spending on defence.

They also have to factor in the wider impact of such welfare cuts - many PIP claimants would be unable to work at all if they have their PIP claim cut and therefore claim more from unemployment benefits. If you went further and say made cuts to actual unemployment benefits, housing benefits, child benefits etc. then yes, you save money up front but all in depth studies on how this works show that this ends up costing money in other areas, crime, social deprivation.

Then there is the huge cost of having to employ many extra people to go into all clamant housholds to establish their personal circumstances (ability to work, willingness to work, health) which is likely to eat up a big part of what we would save. Unless you adopt a racist policy by saying something like all people arriving in UK by any means in last X years will have their benefits stopped (*I use term racist advisedly here, but use it anyway as it is distinguishing between people with Bristish passports only on the grounds of their race, which is racist).

I agree were in a mess, but i think it is largely self created. As a society we have chosen only to vote for politicians that promise not to raise general tax levels and even when politicians get crafty and fiddle with indirect taxations, it still doesn't come close to funding services in order to keep pace with inflation. So unless the economy grows, which blue and red parties have failed to make happen), we can only fiddle around the edges with cuts that we can get through. And obviously populist parties both left and right are making the most of this by promising that they can raise huge amounts from either wealth taxes or benefit cuts when in actuality, neither come close to raining what is needed.

I feel a little sorry for Reeves, there were good signs of economic growth earlier in the year but that has now been peed on my the super necessary war with Iran and other wars Trump has seen fit to start. No easy answers here, but we shouldn't be suckered into thinking the extreme party answers will do anything other than make their supporters feel a bit better whilst likely causing more harm.

[howdydoo]

I think you're about right that we could have saved enough from the governments proposed changes to fund the increase that Healey was looking for. But what labour MPs have to do is balance out the presssure they feel from their constituents about what they would lose on a personal level (majority in cuts to PIP claims, which effects a lot of people, most of whom are working, like my wife) vs the pressures from their constituents about lack of spending on defence.

They also have to factor in the wider impact of such welfare cuts - many PIP claimants would be unable to work at all if they have their PIP claim cut and therefore claim more from unemployment benefits. If you went further and say made cuts to actual unemployment benefits, housing benefits, child benefits etc. then yes, you save money up front but all in depth studies on how this works show that this ends up costing money in other areas, crime, social deprivation.

Then there is the huge cost of having to employ many extra people to go into all clamant housholds to establish their personal circumstances (ability to work, willingness to work, health) which is likely to eat up a big part of what we would save. Unless you adopt a racist policy by saying something like all people arriving in UK by any means in last X years will have their benefits stopped (*I use term racist advisedly here, but use it anyway as it is distinguishing between people with Bristish passports only on the grounds of their race, which is racist).

I agree were in a mess, but i think it is largely self created. As a society we have chosen only to vote for politicians that promise not to raise general tax levels and even when politicians get crafty and fiddle with indirect taxations, it still doesn't come close to funding services in order to keep pace with inflation. So unless the economy grows, which blue and red parties have failed to make happen), we can only fiddle around the edges with cuts that we can get through. And obviously populist parties both left and right are making the most of this by promising that they can raise huge amounts from either wealth taxes or benefit cuts when in actuality, neither come close to raining what is needed.

I feel a little sorry for Reeves, there were good signs of economic growth earlier in the year but that has now been peed on my the super necessary war with Iran and other wars Trump has seen fit to start. No easy answers here, but we shouldn't be suckered into thinking the extreme party answers will do anything other than make their supporters feel a bit better whilst likely causing more harm.

Haven't you worked it out yet? They can tax us all another 25% if they want. It won't make a blind bit of notice.

99% of politicians of our time, are useless. There's higher IQ and capabability in a daily crowd at Legoland.

It's unbelievable.

[ragingpup]

Haven't you worked it out yet? They can tax us all another 25% if they want. It won't make a blind bit of notice.

99% of politicians of our time, are useless. There's higher IQ and capabability in a daily crowd at Legoland.

It's unbelievable.

Not sure it's the politicians that are the problem.

[KerrAvon]

The problem that absolutely no politician is willing to name, let alone address, is that the country can no longer afford to keep us in the manner that we have come to expect.

The economy flatlined in the 2007/8 crash and then Brexit gave it a boot in the head just to make sure. As a country, we are now too poor to have all the things that we would want.

But rather than recognise that reality, the people who have money and would like lots more use the likes of the Daily Mail, GB News and Twitter to persuade people that our current circumstances are down to immigrants and benefit claimants.

[UlleyMiller]

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if the best thing all round is for Tice and Farage to take power.

There's obviously a need for UK politics to fix a lot of issues, and in an age where everything seemingly needs to happen immediately, the minor improvements are never going to satisfy many. Maybe Reform are the answer to the problem, and for more than one reason.

Five years (or until the fixed term is voted down for a quicker GE) of Reform would give the two major parties a period of serious reflection, more so than at any time in the past century or so (at least together, given that individually they've had moments). A jolt to their lethargy and entitlement. I think many voters believe that's required, even if they don't currently plan on ever voting red or blue again.

It also means that many of those who really believe that the small boats issue is 1) easily fixable, and 2) the most significant issue facing the UK today, will get a chance to see the reality. Reform can't fix the small boats issue. They just can't. Not because they're not going to be strong enough, but because of how complex the issue is, how many moving parts sit underneath it, and because they won't have the combined ability to fix it.

Then, they'll shift focus to the other issues because they'll need to. The public will people to blame for the slow (and ultimately failed) effort to fix the (supposed) main issue. Benefits claimants are the glaringly obvious next target. The comedy that awaits there will be prime time viewing, and would be my favourite period of UK political history - the great unwashed being f***ed by the people they pinned their hopes on.

It'll be a mess, an absolute car crash at times, and people will get a perspective on just how stupid populism looks if applied to real government, but the more I weight this up, the more I think the wins outweigh the drawbacks. Older parties have to address their shortcomings, (speaking as a net contributor) slashing the welfare bill (universal credits, the ridiculous pension system, etc) will be a nice bonus in terms of optics, and although we'll be a laughing stock to sane parts of the world, people are forgiving in the long term.

If John Healey turns out to be one of the straws that broke the camel's back, it'll be nice to think a local MP, a Yorkshireman, was part of what ended up being the golden period in political comedy, and hopefully a return to better service in the 2030s.