OT Border Control State of Emergency

[animallittle3]

But Comrade Kier intends to end the Ukraine war !!

Starmer won't be around to end the Ukraine war in my opinion , a winter of discontent is coming with the budget the catalyst .

[Stansmate]

There?s only one bloke who?l end that one and it ain?t our idiot !!

The sooner he and his lot are out the better !

[frogmiller]

If Reform don't produce? Don't produce what? Based on policies that they have launced so far, what are they likely to produce? You can certainly say that they can offer that will use freedom from some international laws to reduce the small boats crossings and then you could say that the mass deportation of low and middle skilled migrant workers may produce a very tiny fraction in the number of black and brown faces we see in our neighbourhoods. Is that all you want them to produce? Surely as a sensible citizen, you would want them to produce a comprehensive, coherent and fully funded plan to fill the low and middle skills vacancies that would be left behind, that are essential to our lives and the economy? Where do I find this from Reform?

Totally agree there are a large number of people focused on the immigration situation who are very vocal and very unhappy. Likewise, there are a lot of people, loud and vocal on the left leaving labour to join the Green Party or whatever Corbyn's project becomes - this would be the first time that there has been a mass movement alternative to the left of the labour party (and in true left wing tradition, look like splitting each other in two just when they needed to unite! But that's another story!).

But in the midst of all of these grand statements from the right and left sides, there were 10 council elections last week - across the country, mainly in blue wall seats, but also former Labour seat of Ashton in Preston. Predictably Tories were wiped out but not by Reform but the Lib Dems! If this movement of which you speak is so prominent why weren't these voters flocking to them instead?

I think the huge issue for Reform (as it was with Corbyn's Labour) is that the closer to a general election we get to a general election, the more you have to present a whole cross section of what you intend to do (and be fairly and unfairly cross examined by media interests, some of whom hwill be protecting their own vested interests) and for the most part voters will have enough of an understanding of the fact that above all, you need people in charge who know not just how to manage one issue, but the whole economy, industry, education, health, infrastructure etc etc. Again, I agree that there are a lot of people out there that are willing to vote for Farage as much as a '**** You!' to how they feel their lives are not being taken into account with politics, and that's understandable. But I think the majority will know that things could get a lot, lot worse. Unless Reform present a more coherent, fully rounded detail of their intentions, in a way that does make sense and add up, then I suspect that they too will come apart like Corbyn, finishing off with panicked, desperate manifesto pledges that became increasingly comical.

Labour - my party you say? On a personal level, I have been a green member since the early 00s and am watching the new leader with interest. I did join labour in 2016 as well though and am still holding that, but the wife has interestingly switched her Labour membership to the greens. Both of us feel disappointed with Labour but can't say I'm surprised as Starmer showed in his leadership bid to become leader how willing he is to take whatever policy stance it takes to gaim control and power. I feel they lack true political conviction to their policies but, having read more roundedly into politics in recent years, I am in sympathy witht them, and also those conservatives before them in knowing how ridiculously hard it is to try to make everything that you want to do work, especiall when there is no clear mandate from the public to better fund what we are crying out for. This got me thinking, to be fair to Labour (and also as a nod to New Labour who I didn't like at the time but I can retrospectively give credit for achievements on some aspects) I looked up a summary of achivements against their manifesto so far:

https://fullfact.org/government-tracker/

It's boring I know, but when you look at the full, rounded deatail that goes into manage all of the things in society we take for granted, that a party puts into a manifesto and then if fortunate enough to win, has to manage the full range of things that keep things ticking, things that are mainly taken for granted, it is jaw dropping and is perhaps taken for granted by many. Maybe not by Kent County Council now! But I don't see how single issue politics (for a I can't see any other clear issues Reform are promoting) can do everything we need, any more than a Green party manifesto pledging to simply ban petrol cars and deep sea mining (not saing that's all they are promising!).

I enjoyed reading that raging.

I think that you are in the same frame of mind as most that are concerned of the direction the UK is going as a whole.

It is skint! There is no way of it selling enough products to overseas clients to bring back the GDP into a positive to enable the country to be debt free.

It means that the UK will have to keep borrowing to fund the future construction of infrastructure including hospitals, schools, roads etc.

If the quantity of migrants legal or not continues then the infrastructure will break sooner rather than later.
The amount of people on benefits will continue to grow because the job market will not keep pace.

I don’t think that Farage is the answer. I think that a fresher party can be.

The cabinet politicians are just faces heading up departments. They may want to change the direction or policy but it will depend on the ability of the civil servants in position to enable the changes.

I can not see a massive change coming for the UK. The point you made about the focus of attention being towards immigration is true although I believe that there are many different fears that are held by many people.

Unless Britain starts increasing its GDP the people will feel it more and more and they will look to blame something. Immigration is seen as a drain and as a threat to the culture of British people. It is hard to argue against.

[Eternal Optimist]

...Unless Britain starts increasing its GDP the people will feel it more and more and they will look to blame something. Immigration is seen as a drain and as a threat to the culture of British people. It is hard to argue against.

GDP/capita will increase exponentially once the non-working economic migrants start being repatriated. It's the only hope for the country.

[ragingpup]

GDP/capita will increase exponentially once the non-working economic migrants start being repatriated. It's the only hope for the country.

How much will this bring us in then EO to justify such a bold statement?

[Eternal Optimist]

Government stats show each non-working migrant costs the taxpayer approx ?50k per annum.

Repatriate enough of them and GDP/capita will certainly increase.

I'm sure you can do the maths.

[ragingpup]

Government stats show each non-working migrant costs the taxpayer approx ?50k per annum.

Repatriate enough of them and GDP/capita will certainly increase.

I'm sure you can do the maths.

I assume you're referring to the OBR report in 24? Where does it say that the cost is 50k per year? Or anything like that? I can see lots of online distortions of that report, but I can't see anything where the obr says that? Unless you're talking about another report, but most searches seem to indicate that this is a false figure widely shared but not actually produced in the obr report. Please put me right by posting the source you're referring to

[Eternal Optimist]

No.

I'm afraid you're beyond help.

[ragingpup]

No.

I'm afraid you're beyond help.

Bit harsh, just for asking where you get the information from to back up your claim that we're going to have a financial windfall from rooting out and forcibly deporting these people. It sounds great and I have looked but I can't find any source. So I'll try again, when you say "Government stats show each non-working migrant costs the taxpayer approx ?50k per annum", which government stats are you taking about, in the words of the govt stats themselves?

[Eternal Optimist]

Whatever I say you'll refute it by quoting from then BBC, Guardian, some or other Deep State controlled media outlet supplying you with the 'cast iron' truth, so what's the point?

Why not find out for yourself rather than relying on the mainstream media?

Tip #1 - Delete Google/Duck Duck Go/Chrome, etc. because they are all controlled and will feed you bovine excretia.

[ragingpup]

Whatever I say you'll refute it by quoting from then BBC, Guardian, some or other Deep State controlled media outlet supplying you with the 'cast iron' truth, so what's the point?

Why not find out for yourself rather than relying on the mainstream media?

Tip #1 - Delete Google/Duck Duck Go/Chrome, etc. because they are all controlled and will feed you bovine excretia.

Wot you on about?? It's really not that hard. You said "Government stats show each non-working migrant costs the taxpayer approx ?50k per annum". I can't find that information, so all ll I'm asking is where do the government stats tell us that? These are your words, not mine!

[Eternal Optimist]

...I can't find that information...

Then search harder.

[ragingpup]

Then search harder.

I didn't realise that the government had taken to only publishing their data on the hard right dark web!

Such a bold statement you put forward, and the scary thing is you and your pals put your heart and soul into such clear and obvious lies. Not sure if it's embarrassing or frightening. Probably both.

[Stovicmiller]

Raging we’ve had our disagreements but I’ve always had you down has an intelligent person but then you go and tell the world you’re a Green Party member. Getting rid of nuclear weapons just when Russian are threatening this country daily, unlimited migration and growing women’s breasts without surgery ( that would help the nhs tho) would that also work if a man was identifying has a woman? .

[John2]

Then search harder.

I think you're gullible and fall for misinformation Eternal, and that's why you're not able to provide a source.

I asked AI for a source and it said this:

"The claim that each non-working migrant costs the taxpayer approximately ?50,000 per year is not supported by available data. Research shows that while there are costs associated with public services like healthcare and education, migrants also contribute significantly to the economy through taxes and economic output. Specific cost figures like ?50,000 for non-working migrants are often disputed or lack a credible source."

If you think this is wrong, feel free to share a link.

If you're not willing or able to share a link that support your claim, feel free to recognise you're gullible and easily fall for misinformation.