How Depressing!

[WBA123]

I've taken this from London Evening Standard by the way......

This guy is happy to pay income tax here and was a major supporter of charitable causes including Oxford University, 2012 Olympic Games, Public Libraries and donating £15m to Great Ormand Street Hospital. How does this benefit the UK?

Indian steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal has become the latest billionaire to leave the UK in response to Labour's tax reforms for the super wealthy.

Mittal, 75, currently has an estimated personal fortune of £15.4bn and has resided in the UK since 1995 with his wife Usha and their two children.

Mittal is known for buying a stake in Queen's Park Rangers and for his extensive charity work, as well as a large property portfolio which includes three homes on Kensington Palace Gardens, known as "Billionaire's Row". He also donated some £5 million to the Labour Party during Tony Blair and Gordon Brown’s premierships.

But now, sources close to the Rajasthan-born tycoon have confirmed he plans to leave the UK days before Rachel Reeves delivers her second budget, The Sunday Times reports.

The chancellor’s cull of non-dom status in April is understood to be a deciding factor that led to Mittal's exit. The system, in place for over 200 years, allowed rich residents to pay UK tax only on income and gains made on British soil.

“It wasn’t the tax on income [or capital gains] that was the issue,” an adviser with knowledge of Mittal's move said. “The issue was inheritance tax. Many wealthy people from overseas cannot understand why all of their assets, wherever they are in the world, should be subject to inheritance tax imposed by the UK Treasury. People in this situation feel they have little choice but to leave and are either sad or angry to be doing so.”

Reeves' budget last October angered many super wealthy residents with its increases to capital gains tax as well as limits imposed on tax relief for entrepreneurs selling their ventures. New taxes were also introduced for family companies handing down their businesses to the next generation.

Rumoured further taxes include a 20 per cent exit tax on those leaving the UK, while critics have accused the chancellor of attacking wealth creation.

Mittal is a resident in Switzerland for tax purposes and reportedly plans to spend much more time in Dubai, where he owns a mansion as well as part of a new development on nearby Naïa Island.

Mittal is not the only billionaire fleeing Britain's shores. Norwegian shipping magnate John Fredriksen upped sticks to Dubai earlier this year, saying Britain had “gone to hell”, while German investor Christian Angermayer moved to Switzerland, saying the non-dom changes are the UK’s "death blow".

Herman Narula and Nik Storonsky, who co-founded of the tech companies Improbable and Revolut, have also raised concerns about UK tax changes, and moved to Dubai.

Mittal was born into an Indian family involved in the steel trade, and he joined his father's company after graduating with a first class commerce degree from college.

He moved to Indonesia in 1976 and set up his own steel producing plant, which gradually morphed into ArcelorMittal - the world's second biggest steel producer with over 125,000 employees. Realising the global steel industry was fractured, Mittal systematically bought up scattered plants across the world one by one and made them collaborate effectively.

The ArcelorMittal name was finally cast in 2006, when Mittal successfully took control of Luxembourg-based rival Arcelor after a five-month bidding process.

ArcelorMittal is now worth more than £25 billion on the stock market and the Mittal own almost 40 per cent of shares. Mittal has a similar stake in steel manufacturer Aperam, as well as almost half of energy firm HPCL-Mittal Energy.

[regis80]

I've taken this from London Evening Standard by the way......

This guy is happy to pay income tax here and was a major supporter of charitable causes including Oxford University, 2012 Olympic Games, Public Libraries and donating £15m to Great Ormand Street Hospital. How does this benefit the UK?

Indian steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal has become the latest billionaire to leave the UK in response to Labour's tax reforms for the super wealthy.

Mittal, 75, currently has an estimated personal fortune of £15.4bn and has resided in the UK since 1995 with his wife Usha and their two children.

Mittal is known for buying a stake in Queen's Park Rangers and for his extensive charity work, as well as a large property portfolio which includes three homes on Kensington Palace Gardens, known as "Billionaire's Row". He also donated some £5 million to the Labour Party during Tony Blair and Gordon Brown’s premierships.

But now, sources close to the Rajasthan-born tycoon have confirmed he plans to leave the UK days before Rachel Reeves delivers her second budget, The Sunday Times reports.

The chancellor’s cull of non-dom status in April is understood to be a deciding factor that led to Mittal's exit. The system, in place for over 200 years, allowed rich residents to pay UK tax only on income and gains made on British soil.

“It wasn’t the tax on income [or capital gains] that was the issue,” an adviser with knowledge of Mittal's move said. “The issue was inheritance tax. Many wealthy people from overseas cannot understand why all of their assets, wherever they are in the world, should be subject to inheritance tax imposed by the UK Treasury. People in this situation feel they have little choice but to leave and are either sad or angry to be doing so.”

Reeves' budget last October angered many super wealthy residents with its increases to capital gains tax as well as limits imposed on tax relief for entrepreneurs selling their ventures. New taxes were also introduced for family companies handing down their businesses to the next generation.

Rumoured further taxes include a 20 per cent exit tax on those leaving the UK, while critics have accused the chancellor of attacking wealth creation.

Mittal is a resident in Switzerland for tax purposes and reportedly plans to spend much more time in Dubai, where he owns a mansion as well as part of a new development on nearby Naïa Island.

Mittal is not the only billionaire fleeing Britain's shores. Norwegian shipping magnate John Fredriksen upped sticks to Dubai earlier this year, saying Britain had “gone to hell”, while German investor Christian Angermayer moved to Switzerland, saying the non-dom changes are the UK’s "death blow".

Herman Narula and Nik Storonsky, who co-founded of the tech companies Improbable and Revolut, have also raised concerns about UK tax changes, and moved to Dubai.

Mittal was born into an Indian family involved in the steel trade, and he joined his father's company after graduating with a first class commerce degree from college.

He moved to Indonesia in 1976 and set up his own steel producing plant, which gradually morphed into ArcelorMittal - the world's second biggest steel producer with over 125,000 employees. Realising the global steel industry was fractured, Mittal systematically bought up scattered plants across the world one by one and made them collaborate effectively.

The ArcelorMittal name was finally cast in 2006, when Mittal successfully took control of Luxembourg-based rival Arcelor after a five-month bidding process.

ArcelorMittal is now worth more than £25 billion on the stock market and the Mittal own almost 40 per cent of shares. Mittal has a similar stake in steel manufacturer Aperam, as well as almost half of energy firm HPCL-Mittal Energy.

Afternoon 123, hope you are keeping well. I agree with some the stuff you’re saying 123 and my main argument is really about targeting the super rich which you have given an example of.. i’m talking the 1% who are literally controlling and buying everything and squeezing everyone else out.. Gary’s Economics latest video talks about this https://youtu.be/g0lEbH2kEw8?si=zwdnBUgs0w9BI5cK

We need to stop offering foreign companies these golden handshakes, let them come in but play by our rules.. i get this isn’t going to attract them in the first place. If they want to sell to us, surely they have no choice?

There are so many ways we should be clawing back money.. Let’s take Uber and Deliveroo.. how much money do we think they extract from the UK? It’s a lot of money.. i’d like to see our government funding a british owned equivalent start up to counter act and ensure this money doesn’t leave the UK. Better here than abroad.. i know there’s be holes in my argument.. it’s just to give an idea what we should be doing and pandering to global corporations and 1%. I can go on for ages about this with you 123 and we’ll sure agree on matters.
I don’t think any of us here are on the 1%, simply because we wouldn’t be on here. Top income earners were both thinking of shouldn’t get a tax hike as you explain, it should be those from higher up.

[baggieal]

Afternoon 123, hope you are keeping well. I agree with some the stuff you’re saying 123 and my main argument is really about targeting the super rich which you have given an example of.. i’m talking the 1% who are literally controlling and buying everything and squeezing everyone else out.. Gary’s Economics latest video talks about this https://youtu.be/g0lEbH2kEw8?si=zwdnBUgs0w9BI5cK

We need to stop offering foreign companies these golden handshakes, let them come in but play by our rules.. i get this isn’t going to attract them in the first place. If they want to sell to us, surely they have no choice?

There are so many ways we should be clawing back money.. Let’s take Uber and Deliveroo.. how much money do we think they extract from the UK? It’s a lot of money.. i’d like to see our government funding a british owned equivalent start up to counter act and ensure this money doesn’t leave the UK. Better here than abroad.. i know there’s be holes in my argument.. it’s just to give an idea what we should be doing and pandering to global corporations and 1%. I can go on for ages about this with you 123 and we’ll sure agree on matters.
I don’t think any of us here are on the 1%, simply because we wouldn’t be on here. Top income earners were both thinking of shouldn’t get a tax hike as you explain, it should be those from higher up.

Whatever happens middle earners 50 to 100K will be squeezed. You can’t always assume those in 1 million pound plus houses are loaded etc for council tax hikes - some may have less disposable income than someone living in a modest 200K house ie pensioners - big mortgage etc. It was the same principle when VAT was added to private school fees - were all parents wealthy that sent there kids to private schools? No of course not because some parents scraped every penny to give their kids a decent education as opposed to getting p issed in places like Magaluf! Some have priorities!

Many couldn’t give a s hit about Rachel’s black hole when the government waste billions on giving out universal credit like confetti - billions spent on illegals arriving whilst our homeless are on the streets and billions spent on foreign aid plus billions spent on Ukraine more so than most other NATO countries. Now there’s talk of doing away with the two child cap so this mainly will benefit even more claiming universal credit.

Other EU countries like Spain don’t waste billions on s hite as mentioned above. Even to receive benefits you have had to contribute to the system otherwise you get next to nothing. In our country even wealthy pensioners received the fuel allowance FFS and didn’t financially need it. You get free NHS prescriptions when your 60 so what a joke how this is not in sinc with the retirement age. So you could be 60 on 100 grand a year and getting free prescriptions FFS.

The whole system is laughable. After this Wednesday the Government will be hated even more if this is possible.

The high street is failing because of high rents and rates plus greedy councils hiking parking charges. Meanwhile companies like Amazon are shifting their accounts around and paying very little in taxation. For me any online business that turns over a certain amount ie 3 million should be hammered with an online tax so there’s a level playing field between high street and online.

As you say Reeves won’t last long and the gutless and spineless Starmer will soon follow.

[baggiematt]

Afternoon 123, hope you are keeping well. I agree with some the stuff you’re saying 123 and my main argument is really about targeting the super rich which you have given an example of.. i’m talking the 1% who are literally controlling and buying everything and squeezing everyone else out.. Gary’s Economics latest video talks about this https://youtu.be/g0lEbH2kEw8?si=zwdnBUgs0w9BI5cK

We need to stop offering foreign companies these golden handshakes, let them come in but play by our rules.. i get this isn’t going to attract them in the first place. If they want to sell to us, surely they have no choice?

There are so many ways we should be clawing back money.. Let’s take Uber and Deliveroo.. how much money do we think they extract from the UK? It’s a lot of money.. i’d like to see our government funding a british owned equivalent start up to counter act and ensure this money doesn’t leave the UK. Better here than abroad.. i know there’s be holes in my argument.. it’s just to give an idea what we should be doing and pandering to global corporations and 1%. I can go on for ages about this with you 123 and we’ll sure agree on matters.
I don’t think any of us here are on the 1%, simply because we wouldn’t be on here. Top income earners were both thinking of shouldn’t get a tax hike as you explain, it should be those from higher up.

Gary Stevenson is an intelligent bloke but if you watch him debate with proper economists, they debunk him very easily. He tries to simplify very complex topics and leaves out several important factors that damage his argument, probably not purposefully.

Most governments arent concerned by corporation tax. Not only is it a f*cker to prove and fight for, but also you get the money back in the end even if it isnt taxed. If it becomes a dividend, it’s taxed and is usually spent back into the economy. If it goes back into the business it’s spent on investment which creates jobs and wealth.

We need foreign investment. It’s absolutely critical for growth.

Socialism, in a sense of less billionaires, is a bit of a myth. The Nordic Model is often seen as the best example of socialism but they have more billionaires than us vs overall population.

[regis80]

Gary Stevenson is an intelligent bloke but if you watch him debate with proper economists, they debunk him very easily. He tries to simplify very complex topics and leaves out several important factors that damage his argument, probably not purposefully.

Most governments arent concerned by corporation tax. Not only is it a f*cker to prove and fight for, but also you get the money back in the end even if it isnt taxed. If it becomes a dividend, it’s taxed and is usually spent back into the economy. If it goes back into the business it’s spent on investment which creates jobs and wealth.

We need foreign investment. It’s absolutely critical for growth.

Socialism, in a sense of less billionaires, is a bit of a myth. The Nordic Model is often seen as the best example of socialism but they have more billionaires than us vs overall population.

There are some economists and accountants namely Richard Murphy that have tried to debunk him, but (and i say from my own point of view) they are well rooted into the their economic models that anything going against it will be debunked, despite it being broken and not really working. Gary at least is owning up to this to say something fundamentally is wrong. I can see that something is wrong, sure you do too Matt. What the answer is, i don’t know. But we can’t have a minority of the global population hoarding all the wealth. This cannot be ignored nor be said it’s irrelevant.

[WBA123]

There are some economists and accountants namely Richard Murphy that have tried to debunk him, but (and i say from my own point of view) they are well rooted into the their economic models that anything going against it will be debunked, despite it being broken and not really working. Gary at least is owning up to this to say something fundamentally is wrong. I can see that something is wrong, sure you do too Matt. What the answer is, i don’t know. But we can’t have a minority of the global population hoarding all the wealth. This cannot be ignored nor be said it’s irrelevant.

I agree with Matt here, he is usually debunked. I appreciate his views come from a good place, but his economic thinking process is deeply flawed.

Equally, I agree companies like Starbucks and Amazon should be paying corporation tax in this country and its quite scandalous they're not doing this.

[regis80]

I agree with Matt here, he is usually debunked. I appreciate his views come from a good place, but his economic thinking process is deeply flawed.

Equally, I agree companies like Starbucks and Amazon should be paying corporation tax in this country and its quite scandalous they're not doing this.

That’s fair 123. My point is (and i might be saying this without having watched where he’s debunked) that a lot of these ‘academics’ if you like believe in economic models, rules, MMT and all of that. Which I do understand a little about but by no means an expert. It could well be tied to how far Capitalism has gone and not worked, where transfer of wealth just goes one way. Those experts will always debunk the likes of Gary with their counter arguments.. but these experts do always get it wrong too. Take for instance a simple scenario of someone being highly intelligent in Business studies, who has a masters/phd. My lecturer back at Uni for example.. they are so ingrained in their theories that they wouldn’t know how to actually run a business - fact. Running a business isn’t about how much theory you know, it’s the practicality. Many business owners here will probably agree with me. I grew up studying business studies at college and Uni and read a lot of Richard Branson back in the late 90s. He didn’t go to Uni but he’s successful. Because let’s face it, being in business you don’t play by the rules or follow the rule book - you do what you need to do. Back to these debunkers, they can keep arguing with Gary but they don’t offer any solutions (maybe) and are not wise enough to realise they are or could be wrong because they just go by the theories etc and will always fall back on it to protect themselves. That’s just my take on it. Just ask yourself (others too), who is buying up all the property in the UK? Private equities. And then which party currently not in government sides with them?