Harry Whitwell

[Bombers right foot]

Having a great season at Forest Green, time to bring him back and start integrating him and Bostock into the team, Sunderland relied heavily on youngster in the Championship and it paid off.
Mason has no intention whatsoever in playing the up and coming youngsters,
Playing the likes of Whitwell and Bostock carefully might give the team a lift with their passion, skill, energy and their keenness to do well, other teams integrate youngsters why can?t we, they are the future not these constant failures we have now, we could start with getting rid of the YTS manager and employ someone that knows something about the game of football

[baggieal]

Having a great season at Forest Green, time to bring him back and start integrating him and Bostock into the team, Sunderland relied heavily on youngster in the Championship and it paid off.
Mason has no intention whatsoever in playing the up and coming youngsters,
Playing the likes of Whitwell and Bostock carefully might give the team a lift with their passion, skill, energy and their keenness to do well, other teams integrate youngsters why can?t we, they are the future not these constant failures we have now, we could start with getting rid of the YTS manager and employ someone that knows something about the game of football

This is what I do not get beyond belief with idiot Mason. He would rather play Junior than Bostock who is poor or welcome back a fit Wallace to be slotted back in. Junior is a loan player and a crap one at that and Wallace has no legs on his whopping 30K a week salary.

I really hope Bostock and any other promising youngsters get snapped up by an ambitious club. Even Man U played an 18 years old in the week.

The bottom line is Mason has no balls! Sack him before we end up in division 1.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Having a great season at Forest Green, time to bring him back and start integrating him and Bostock into the team, Sunderland relied heavily on youngster in the Championship and it paid off.
Mason has no intention whatsoever in playing the up and coming youngsters,
Playing the likes of Whitwell and Bostock carefully might give the team a lift with their passion, skill, energy and their keenness to do well, other teams integrate youngsters why can?t we, they are the future not these constant failures we have now, we could start with getting rid of the YTS manager and employ someone that knows something about the game of football

You make a very good point. Premiership sides blood youngsters but we do not in the championship. Mason is reluctant to play them, why, I just do not know? It’s not as if we are playing well or that we have a strong bench, in fact we have had two goalkeepers on the bench on occsaions. I am afraid that I am becoming more and more disenchanted with Mason as time passes.

[baggieal]

You make a very good point. Premiership sides blood youngsters but we do not in the championship. Mason is reluctant to play them, why, I just do not know? It’s not as if we are playing well or that we have a strong bench, in fact we have had two goalkeepers on the bench on occsaions. I am afraid that I am becoming more and more disenchanted with Mason as time passes.

Good point LB. At the end of the day supporters would not be toxic if we lose with youngsters trying their best. You get toxic when you know our players are no worse than Hull, Preston and Millwall who have good managers when we have a fkin idiot!

[Omegstrat6]

Ditto Leics!

Things are not ideal for Mason as they would not be for any manager coming in. They too would have to face the same set of injuries or the same number of refereeing decisions going against us. The reality is that there is also no money for decent recruitment in this transfer window to help bolster the squad so, unless we can magically unearth a cheap gem, he-or any manager who may replace him-will continue to face issues over the lack of depth in the squad.

I think we all have pretty similar ideas about what our best eleven is but whilst we are all of an age to remember football from the 60s and 70s when the same selection seemed to play regardless of mud rutted or frozen hard pitches, heavier balls and centre backs who really did "bite yer legs", the game is different now, especially in the Championship. Playing so many games on top of each other, and with a lot of these involving travelling away, means that the reality is that game management for players is important and that being able to always put out the same eleven is simply not feasible. I honestly don't think that Mason is wrong when he therefore emphasises the importance of the squad or expresses concerns that Mikey Johnston, for example, will not be able to physically hit the same level of energy in every game if he is expected to play 90 mins in every match. Not only that, but to do so would almost inevitably increase a risk of injury. I am sure that any other manager coming in would feel the same.

All the above are genuine issues that Mason has had to contend with and will continue to have to contend with if he remains. The moot point is how he has managed these issues and whether a more experienced manager could do better. Sadly, I think the answer is yes.

Mason may not have control over injuries or refereeing decisions and the players themselves must bear responsibility for sloppy passing, defensive errors, poor finishing or lack of desire but he does have control over tactics and team selection and too often he has surely got these wrong.

As Matt has alluded to before, the sheer physicality of the Championship would be hard for younger players like Bostock to transition to but whilst I would never expect him to play 90 mins I have to agree with Al and Bomber that he deserves at least some opportunities to start learning and his very freshness might help spark some creativity. With Bany out, Coliyer now gone and knowing how underwhelming Illing Junior can be, surely Bostock is worth a punt? Including him in the bench but still not playing him seems to me to be Mason not fully utilizing his options.

My main concern, however, is that Mason will not be able to turn the ship around. Winning can become a habit and so can losing and I don't think Mason-however well liked by the players-is now capable of getting us over this confidence hump. There have been glimpses of improvements over recent games but the inconsistency in performances and the ease with which we so quickly fall back to lacklustre dross cannot continue.

This group of players have shown that they can play with passion and intent and -albeit too rarely-some quality. It is not a great squad but certainly one that should be performing far better and this is what Mason is consistently failing to do -getting the best out of the players available to him. This is his job and the bottom line is that he is not succeeding in it. A new broom with more experience now seems needed if we are not to sleep walk into a relegation battle. I'm not for knee-jerk sacking of managers and I had really hoped that Mason might be able to stop the rot and start turning the corner but patience cannot be endless. Luckily for ourselves, teams like Norwich are underperforming worse than ourselves and now Blues have begun to struggle but we cannot afford to rely on the plight of others to avoid a relegation battle and need to take control of our own destiny.

[Bombers right foot]

Ditto Leics!

Things are not ideal for Mason as they would not be for any manager coming in. They too would have to face the same set of injuries or the same number of refereeing decisions going against us. The reality is that there is also no money for decent recruitment in this transfer window to help bolster the squad so, unless we can magically unearth a cheap gem, he-or any manager who may replace him-will continue to face issues over the lack of depth in the squad.

I think we all have pretty similar ideas about what our best eleven is but whilst we are all of an age to remember football from the 60s and 70s when the same selection seemed to play regardless of mud rutted or frozen hard pitches, heavier balls and centre backs who really did "bite yer legs", the game is different now, especially in the Championship. Playing so many games on top of each other, and with a lot of these involving travelling away, means that the reality is that game management for players is important and that being able to always put out the same eleven is simply not feasible. I honestly don't think that Mason is wrong when he therefore emphasises the importance of the squad or expresses concerns that Mikey Johnston, for example, will not be able to physically hit the same level of energy in every game if he is expected to play 90 mins in every match. Not only that, but to do so would almost inevitably increase a risk of injury. I am sure that any other manager coming in would feel the same.

All the above are genuine issues that Mason has had to contend with and will continue to have to contend with if he remains. The moot point is how he has managed these issues and whether a more experienced manager could do better. Sadly, I think the answer is yes.

Mason may not have control over injuries or refereeing decisions and the players themselves must bear responsibility for sloppy passing, defensive errors, poor finishing or lack of desire but he does have control over tactics and team selection and too often he has surely got these wrong.

As Matt has alluded to before, the sheer physicality of the Championship would be hard for younger players like Bostock to transition to but whilst I would never expect him to play 90 mins I have to agree with Al and Bomber that he deserves at least some opportunities to start learning and his very freshness might help spark some creativity. With Bany out, Coliyer now gone and knowing how underwhelming Illing Junior can be, surely Bostock is worth a punt? Including him in the bench but still not playing him seems to me to be Mason not fully utilizing his options.

My main concern, however, is that Mason will not be able to turn the ship around. Winning can become a habit and so can losing and I don't think Mason-however well liked by the players-is now capable of getting us over this confidence hump. There have been glimpses of improvements over recent games but the inconsistency in performances and the ease with which we so quickly fall back to lacklustre dross cannot continue.

This group of players have shown that they can play with passion and intent and -albeit too rarely-some quality. It is not a great squad but certainly one that should be performing far better and this is what Mason is consistently failing to do -getting the best out of the players available to him. This is his job and the bottom line is that he is not succeeding in it. A new broom with more experience now seems needed if we are not to sleep walk into a relegation battle. I'm not for knee-jerk sacking of managers and I had really hoped that Mason might be able to stop the rot and start turning the corner but patience cannot be endless. Luckily for ourselves, teams like Norwich are underperforming worse than ourselves and now Blues have begun to struggle but we cannot afford to rely on the plight of others to avoid a relegation battle and need to take control of our own destiny.

Wow! What an excellent erudite post, I agree with every word, excellent Omeg

[stargazer_1962]

The manager said after the swansea game that he didn't have the option to change the squad unlike the opposition who had made 4 changes.
No doubt the FA cup game will see opportunities afforded to some youngsters, whether at the start or as substitutes I don't know.

[Prando]

Well made points Omeg buddy. I certainly do not believe in sacking the manager without a suitable replacement. (Willing and Able)

However, it is now clear to me that Mason is not capable of dealing with the current playing situation …injuries, introduction of youngsters, shortcomings in the style of play and individual player motivation. Nestor is also not innocent of these charges, albeit he will no doubt claim he is at arms length from the issue.

Of particular concern is the players? lack of belief in Mason?s tactics and accordingly the inevitable inconsistency and acceptance.

No easy resolution to salvage this season, unless the Board are well advanced with a replacement recruitment.

[baggiematt]

If youre good enough, youre old enough, but first youve got to be good enough.

That jump from youth football to adult is huge. It feels like we have this sort of player every season, with the “why arent they getting in the side” shouts.

I recall criticisms for managers not picking Leko, Edwards, Harper, TGH, Ashworth, Field etc..

The harsh reality is most good u21 players are below league 2 level and very few go beyond.

Mason is crying out for answers so im sure if they were good enough against men in training, they would be in.

Whitwell is playing non league football, where it is easier to look good. Jovan Malcolm did quite well at Gasehead last season and got a move to Stevenage but only had a handful of starts and no goals.

I do think they sent Whitwell below his level to guarantee him physical football against men and maybe he isnt too far away.

Mason is proving to have deficiencies and maybe he is missing a trick with the younger lads. We as fans just wont know without seeing them playing adult football. I wouldnt hang my hat on them being the answer though. The fact he is not playing them tells you they more likely than not arent going to cut the mustard yet or at all.

[baggieal]

If youre good enough, youre old enough, but first youve got to be good enough.

That jump from youth football to adult is huge. It feels like we have this sort of player every season, with the “why arent they getting in the side” shouts.

I recall criticisms for managers not picking Leko, Edwards, Harper, TGH, Ashworth, Field etc..

The harsh reality is most good u21 players are below league 2 level and very few go beyond.

Mason is crying out for answers so im sure if they were good enough against men in training, they would be in.

Whitwell is playing non league football, where it is easier to look good. Jovan Malcolm did quite well at Gasehead last season and got a move to Stevenage but only had a handful of starts and no goals.

I do think they sent Whitwell below his level to guarantee him physical football against men and maybe he isnt too far away.

Mason is proving to have deficiencies and maybe he is missing a trick with the younger lads. We as fans just wont know without seeing them playing adult football. I wouldnt hang my hat on them being the answer though. The fact he is not playing them tells you they more likely than not arent going to cut the mustard yet or at all.

But the fact is when Bostock came on a couple of times ie Millwall being one - he looked class with quick feet. Not just my observation but many comments from supporters saying the same. So why have these 10 minutes not turned into 45 minutes? You do not have to be amazing to be better than Junior who is underwhelming or a fit Wallace whose legs have gone FFS! Man U played Fletchers son in the week who is 18 where Arteta played a 15 year old in the Champions League. It?s called having balls and courage! Mason could not even get the players to pump the ball quickly enough to Dike or Maja in the last few minutes at Swansea. Even Wildsmith was looking at him for the nod to go up for the corner in the last seconds. A complete joke!

I hope an ambitious club come in for Bostock and it will be another youngster lost. Personally due to us now in a relegation battle and lost nine on the trot - would many object to all our youngsters playing in that FA Cup match? I honestly do not think they would as you would not show anger at willing youngsters even in defeat. Could be 10 losses on Monday and its shambolic and embarrassing.

The tickets for Leicester are still available in plentiful ( only 3000 allocated ). That tells you for a short trip down the road supporters are fed up with complete s hite! What next a boycott?

Come on what should these away supporters do when spending a s hit load of money? The Conga? Enough is enough!

[Omegstrat6]

Wow! What an excellent erudite post, I agree with every word, excellent Omeg

Thanks for the compliment bomber but just my thoughts which, having read many of those by fellow posters- including those of your good self-would seem to echo many of the sentiments already expressed.

I just think that sometimes our frustrations make us forget some of the genuine difficulties that Mason faces (injuries/ lack of depth in the squad/ refereeing decisions/ little or no funds for recruitment) and there are no easy fixes. I agree that Bostock, for example, should be given his opportunity and may possibly spark some creativity but Matt is surely right in saying that just playing our promising youngsters is not going to solve our problems.

All that said, too often Mason makes bewildering decisions over the things that he does have control over (selection/ tactics) and this is the problem. We know that this set of players are not great but we also know that they can be better defensively just as we know that they are capable of greater passion and attacking intent.

Much as he seems a nice guy who is liked by the players and whom many wanted to see succeed, the bottom line is that Mason is not getting the best out of those available to him and the inconsistency in performances hasn't shown any real indications that he can change our downward trajectory. The club surely cannot give him much longer now when there is a very real chance that a more proven and experienced manager could stop the rot and get them playing to their potential and see us start to claw our way back up the table to safety at least.

[baggieal]

Thanks for the compliment bomber but just my thoughts which, having read many of those by fellow posters- including those of your good self-would seem to echo many of the sentiments already expressed.

I just think that sometimes our frustrations make us forget some of the genuine difficulties that Mason faces (injuries/ lack of depth in the squad/ refereeing decisions/ little or no funds for recruitment) and there are no easy fixes. I agree that Bostock, for example, should be given his opportunity and may possibly spark some creativity but Matt is surely right in saying that just playing our promising youngsters is not going to solve our problems.

All that said, too often Mason makes bewildering decisions over the things that he does have control over (selection/ tactics) and this is the problem. We know that this set of players are not great but we also know that they can be better defensively just as we know that they are capable of greater passion and attacking intent.

Much as he seems a nice guy who is liked by the players and whom many wanted to see succeed, the bottom line is that Mason is not getting the best out of those available to him and the inconsistency in performances hasn't shown any real indications that he can change our downward trajectory. The club surely cannot give him much longer now when there is a very real chance that a more proven and experienced manager could stop the rot and get them playing to their potential and see us start to claw our way back up the table to safety at least.

Agree Omeg but not interested in nice guys just fair guys who command respect. Playing youngsters could solve some problems - We are very quick to bring in s hite loan players on big money rather than giving youngsters a fair crack at the whip. Nobody could convince me Bostock would not impress me more than Junior - he impressed more in those 10 minutes at Millwall than most of the others for 90. So why have those impressive 10 minutes not turned into 30?

After losing nine on the trot and plenty of tickets still available up the road at Leicester - would most supporters care if it was mostly youngsters who feature in the cup at Swansea? I think not as even in defeat they would be cheered.

Collyer was a decent player and loved at Man U and looked tidy at times for us! But it was in out in out so again no consistency from Mason.

Wait until Wallace returns fit - he will be slotted back in. You need to have faith in your younger players which other managers do and it produces results.

Away support is dwindling fast because we have an idiot in charge. Everybody supports youngsters so give them a fair shot. Who care about the cup when we are in a relegation battle. I remember last year when Bournemouth?s kids ran us ragged!

[Omegstrat6]

Agree Omeg but not interested in nice guys just fair guys who command respect. Playing youngsters could solve some problems - We are very quick to bring in s hite loan players on big money rather than giving youngsters a fair crack at the whip. Nobody could convince me Bostock would not impress me more than Junior - he impressed more in those 10 minutes at Millwall than most of the others for 90. So why have those impressive 10 minutes not turned into 30?

After losing nine on the trot and plenty of tickets still available up the road at Leicester - would most supporters care if it was mostly youngsters who feature in the cup at Swansea? I think not as even in defeat they would be cheered.

Collyer was a decent player and loved at Man U and looked tidy at times for us! But it was in out in out so again no consistency from Mason.

Wait until Wallace returns fit - he will be slotted back in. You need to have faith in your younger players which other managers do and it produces results.

Away support is dwindling fast because we have an idiot in charge. Everybody supports youngsters so give them a fair shot. Who care about the cup when we are in a relegation battle. I remember last year when Bournemouth?s kids ran us ragged!

Don't disagree about niceness not being enough Al. I've spent most of my working life as a manager and learnt the valuable lesson some years ago that, in business, always go with your head, not heart! I'm sure there are many managers or ex-managers on here with years of experience and more knowledge than myself, certainly around football, but my own feelings on Mason as a manager are this-

I believe that motivation in life ultimately comes down to a balance between carrot and stick. Being "nice"-I would guess-might mean things like being polite, being helpful, showing support, tolerance and compassion, having empathy and a good work ethic. When managing people, these are all valuable attributes which are likely to engender reciprocation as well as being liked as a person. No-one likes being managed by some-one who lacks these qualities and is merely ruthless and over demanding

But being nice isn't enough on its own, certainly not for a manager, and can be seen as being weak or indecisive-not things leaders (Starmer!) can afford to be guilty of. Managers are leaders, tasked to achieve certain targets and to optimize the resources available to them to do so. In order to properly achieve, they have to be respected which means that they have to not only be knowledgeable in their job but also be both fair and firm in their dealings with people and decision making. One maxim I've always liked is that quote from the movie Road House-"be nice, until it's time not to be nice". There are times when tough decisions have to be made, and, as a manager, you have to continually assess where you are and continually performance manage. You have to listen to others but must not be cowed and cannot be frightened of confrontation. I'm not saying that I think Mason doesn't try and do this, I'm just saying that I believe he isn't doing it well enough and (like many!) question his decision making.

There is an old adage that it is far easier for a new manager to come in hard and then ease up than it is to come in too soft and then try and toughen up. I'm not too sure whether Mason has fallen into this trap of not. When he first arrived at the Hawthorns, many of the players praised him for knowing what he wanted and for being very being clear in what he expected from them so they knew their individual roles. So far, so good and we all like clear direction-but, whilst being liked, I fear that Mason has neither the experience to react properly to changing situations-another key management skill-nor the more ruthless element that has to be part of the job. Faced with an increasing injury list, for example, in the view of many fans he has not always made the correct necessary adjustments whether in team selection or tactics. This might be shown in his unwillingness to even try Bostock, his persistence with Wallace or Price when they have not been performing, his decision to favour Wildsmith over Griffiths or his slowness in moving away from tippy-happy football to more attacking intent.

It is clear from his interviews that Mason cares and is very frustrated by both results and performances and he is keen to stress that he knows that the buck ultimately stops with him. I don't doubt that he means what he says and I think he is a genuine bloke but it is becoming increasingly apparent that he is floundering and does not know himself now how to now turn things around and motivate these players to get over this hump and avoid our downward spiral. I feel sorry for him because a lot of the issues he has are out of his control (and, as Prando says, Nestor and his game model may be part of the problem too) but the reality is that he lacks the experience or ability to get us out of this rut. Surely this must have now dawned on the club too?

[baggieal]

Don't disagree about niceness not being enough Al. I've spent most of my working life as a manager and learnt the valuable lesson some years ago that, in business, always go with your head, not heart! I'm sure there are many managers or ex-managers on here with years of experience and more knowledge than myself, certainly around football, but my own feelings on Mason as a manager are this-

I believe that motivation in life ultimately comes down to a balance between carrot and stick. Being "nice"-I would guess-might mean things like being polite, being helpful, showing support, tolerance and compassion, having empathy and a good work ethic. When managing people, these are all valuable attributes which are likely to engender reciprocation as well as being liked as a person. No-one likes being managed by some-one who lacks these qualities and is merely ruthless and over demanding

But being nice isn't enough on its own, certainly not for a manager, and can be seen as being weak or indecisive-not things leaders (Starmer!) can afford to be guilty of. Managers are leaders, tasked to achieve certain targets and to optimize the resources available to them to do so. In order to properly achieve, they have to be respected which means that they have to not only be knowledgeable in their job but also be both fair and firm in their dealings with people and decision making. One maxim I've always liked is that quote from the movie Road House-"be nice, until it's time not to be nice". There are times when tough decisions have to be made, and, as a manager, you have to continually assess where you are and continually performance manage. You have to listen to others but must not be cowed and cannot be frightened of confrontation. I'm not saying that I think Mason doesn't try and do this, I'm just saying that I believe he isn't doing it well enough and (like many!) question his decision making.

There is an old adage that it is far easier for a new manager to come in hard and then ease up than it is to come in too soft and then try and toughen up. I'm not too sure whether Mason has fallen into this trap of not. When he first arrived at the Hawthorns, many of the players praised him for knowing what he wanted and for being very being clear in what he expected from them so they knew their individual roles. So far, so good and we all like clear direction-but, whilst being liked, I fear that Mason has neither the experience to react properly to changing situations-another key management skill-nor the more ruthless element that has to be part of the job. Faced with an increasing injury list, for example, in the view of many fans he has not always made the correct necessary adjustments whether in team selection or tactics. This might be shown in his unwillingness to even try Bostock, his persistence with Wallace or Price when they have not been performing, his decision to favour Wildsmith over Griffiths or his slowness in moving away from tippy-happy football to more attacking intent.

It is clear from his interviews that Mason cares and is very frustrated by both results and performances and he is keen to stress that he knows that the buck ultimately stops with him. I don't doubt that he means what he says and I think he is a genuine bloke but it is becoming increasingly apparent that he is floundering and does not know himself now how to now turn things around and motivate these players to get over this hump and avoid our downward spiral. I feel sorry for him because a lot of the issues he has are out of his control (and, as Prando says, Nestor and his game model may be part of the problem too) but the reality is that he lacks the experience or ability to get us out of this rut. Surely this must have now dawned on the club too?

Great assessment Omeg. Makes you wonder whether ultimately this game model is part of the problem. What does Nestor know about football?

My game model would resolve around recruiting talented youngsters - playing them - then selling them on for a good profit. Brentford and Brighton have been masters at this for years. Sunderland are similar and it was fast pacy youngsters who helped them out of the championship. I remember when the Sunderland youngsters came to our ground under CC and tore us apart!

For me players like Dike, Wallace and Maja on huge wages should be out of the door come June with a boot!

[Omegstrat6]

Great assessment Omeg. Makes you wonder whether ultimately this game model is part of the problem. What does Nestor know about football?

My game model would resolve around recruiting talented youngsters - playing them - then selling them on for a good profit. Brentford and Brighton have been masters at this for years. Sunderland are similar and it was fast pacy youngsters who helped them out of the championship. I remember when the Sunderland youngsters came to our ground under CC and tore us apart!

For me players like Dike, Wallace and Maja on huge wages should be out of the door come June with a boot!

Odd isn't it, because both Nestor and Mason have spoken about the importance of our Academy and of developing our younger players but when we have come to this point when the lack of depth in the first team squad should surely provide them with their opportunity, this hasn't been given.

I totally understand Matt's point about the gulf in difference between playing as an U21 in PL2 and playing in the Championship but also find it hard not to agree with yourself and Bomber that the likes of Bostock should be given a chance that may both benefit their own development and potentially spark some creativity in the team.