Amorin leaves Man Utd.

[Dubbag]

They seem to have issues about keeping hold of managers as well.
New players doesn't seem to be the answer.
New managers don't seem to be the answers either.
New owners don't seem to be the answer.
Perhaps all this merry go round in football is symptomatic of a much deeper problem facing football, namely it can't really work as a business model. It's either sport or it isn't and if it isn't, then you get what we see globally. Mainly fans been disinfrachised of what use to be their local and loved clubs.
Water shed moment for the sport is coming me thinks.

[kettering_baggie]

The underlying reason, in my opinion, is money. There is so much of the stuff swilling around in the Premier League it inevitably distorts the sport, owners care about the money far more than they do about the people in the clubs and certainly more than their poor supporters. I think that there are far too many club owners that are not football people at all. Football, especially at the top level, has lost its soul; the Premier League has a lot to answer for.

[On Balance]

They seem to have issues about keeping hold of managers as well.
New players doesn't seem to be the answer.
New managers don't seem to be the answers either.
New owners don't seem to be the answer.
Perhaps all this merry go round in football is symptomatic of a much deeper problem facing football, namely it can't really work as a business model. It's either sport or it isn't and if it isn't, then you get what we see globally. Mainly fans been disinfrachised of what use to be their local and loved clubs.
Water shed moment for the sport is coming me thinks.

You make a very valid point Dubs, football is at a point when you say the game is at a watershed moment.

Managers/coaches coming and going. If Mason goes, and I suspect time is running out for him sadly, who will replace him. Will it be another person who has failed at other clubs and been sacked or perhaps someone who s young and enthusiastic. Either way they will only be given a very short period of time before the unrest kicks in if they do not provide instant success.

Corberran is now mocked, Mason is disliked, Mowbray treated with disdain, Bruce (perhaps understandably) disliked and mocked, Ishmael disliked, Allardyce (again perhaps understandably) disliked, Bilic,no patience shown and disliked, Moore, disliked, Pardew, Pulis the list goes on. Gary Megson, who could forget him. But his football was not the greatest. It was all about one nil wins.

It is all just a pathetic merry-go-round caused by a need of instant success, by the owners of clubs and by some of the fans.

We have to be honest with our expectations. Manchester United’s is greater than ours. They want the Premeir League, they want European success and global success. We on the other hand would be happy for a play off place, a decent cup run. We are not realistically going to get better than that due to our previous owner, you know the one from China, who was made so welcome when he bought our club. Welcome because some thought his alleged fortune spelt success. Look where that got us.

Manchester United are capable of getting back to where they were a few seasons back. We will struggle to do so. They have the prestige, the finances and the Premier League behind them. We do not have much in comparison.

Let us take Leicester City who bucked the trend, they won the Premeir League ten years ago this coming May. They bucked the trend once. What has happened to them, are they top six now, top half in the Premier League or in a relegation fight in the Premier League. No, they are 3 points above us (possibly six after tonight). Aston Villa right now are going well but let us look back to where they were ten years ago, mid table in the Championship. We were in the Premier League, things change but not forever and certainly not long term when comes to the top six, maybe the eight clubs in the Premier League. There may be the odd club that will for a season or two that will punch above their weight and succeed but it will only for a limited period. Why, because of money.

I have long be against these models, i.e. the Nestor type Models. Football clubs are run differently to what they were in halcyon days past when they were at the centre of communities. Now they are, in the main, taken over by wealthy individuals or businesses and not necessarily in the best interest of the clubs or the community it serves or once served.

It will not stop me going to the Albion though. Win or lose, trophy or none I love it.

[Leicesterbaggie]

The majority of fans in this country have been stating for a long time now that money has ruined the game that we all love. Personally, I think that it was the inauguration of the Premier League that was the start of the problem.

Prior to this, clubs of our size, at the start of a season, would think that it could be their year. Now, it is down to as little as three or four clubs, not even the top six in my opinion. The only way that it can come to some sort of level playing field is to have a realistic and sensible limit on club spending and not the ridiculous system that we now have. The bottom line is that football was a sport and not a business but I am afraid that it is now a business and not a sport.

Despite what I have said in the previous statement I am afraid that I do not foresee any significant change in the way the game is run and we have to live with it. Sadly, we have to accept tha money has ruined OUR game!

[baggieal]

The majority of fans in this country have been stating for a long time now that money has ruined the game that we all love. Personally, I think that it was the inauguration of the Premier League that was the start of the problem.

Prior to this, clubs of our size, at the start of a season, would think that it could be their year. Now, it is down to as little as three or four clubs, not even the top six in my opinion. The only way that it can come to some sort of level playing field is to have a realistic and sensible limit on club spending and not the ridiculous system that we now have. The bottom line is that football was a sport and not a business but I am afraid that it is now a business and not a sport.

Despite what I have said in the previous statement I am afraid that I do not foresee any significant change in the way the game is run and we have to live with it. Sadly, we have to accept tha money has ruined OUR game!

I agree. Many don?t mind losing but do not like absolute s hit football which Mason delivers and yes the guy is a clown. Empty seats galore at home and away support now poor - Jesus poor not selling out at Leicester but do you blame people for not going including myself. I would rather go fruit shopping with the Mrs and see the absolute dross we deliver. Millwall have less expectations and less capable players than us but they do excite their supporters and play great football. They have a good manager and not a clown.

[baggiematt]

You make a very valid point Dubs, football is at a point when you say the game is at a watershed moment.

Managers/coaches coming and going. If Mason goes, and I suspect time is running out for him sadly, who will replace him. Will it be another person who has failed at other clubs and been sacked or perhaps someone who s young and enthusiastic. Either way they will only be given a very short period of time before the unrest kicks in if they do not provide instant success.

Corberran is now mocked, Mason is disliked, Mowbray treated with disdain, Bruce (perhaps understandably) disliked and mocked, Ishmael disliked, Allardyce (again perhaps understandably) disliked, Bilic,no patience shown and disliked, Moore, disliked, Pardew, Pulis the list goes on. Gary Megson, who could forget him. But his football was not the greatest. It was all about one nil wins.

It is all just a pathetic merry-go-round caused by a need of instant success, by the owners of clubs and by some of the fans.

We have to be honest with our expectations. Manchester United’s is greater than ours. They want the Premeir League, they want European success and global success. We on the other hand would be happy for a play off place, a decent cup run. We are not realistically going to get better than that due to our previous owner, you know the one from China, who was made so welcome when he bought our club. Welcome because some thought his alleged fortune spelt success. Look where that got us.

Manchester United are capable of getting back to where they were a few seasons back. We will struggle to do so. They have the prestige, the finances and the Premier League behind them. We do not have much in comparison.

Let us take Leicester City who bucked the trend, they won the Premeir League ten years ago this coming May. They bucked the trend once. What has happened to them, are they top six now, top half in the Premier League or in a relegation fight in the Premier League. No, they are 3 points above us (possibly six after tonight). Aston Villa right now are going well but let us look back to where they were ten years ago, mid table in the Championship. We were in the Premier League, things change but not forever and certainly not long term when comes to the top six, maybe the eight clubs in the Premier League. There may be the odd club that will for a season or two that will punch above their weight and succeed but it will only for a limited period. Why, because of money.

I have long be against these models, i.e. the Nestor type Models. Football clubs are run differently to what they were in halcyon days past when they were at the centre of communities. Now they are, in the main, taken over by wealthy individuals or businesses and not necessarily in the best interest of the clubs or the community it serves or once served.

It will not stop me going to the Albion though. Win or lose, trophy or none I love it.

Good post OB. For me, United has failed because it hasnt had a player model, like we are getting towards. United has played 4231 for years and built its side around it. They then appoint Amorim who wants 343 and totally different players. Now I bet they revert to a manager that wants 4231.

The problem with that is succession planning. They got rid of wingers like Garnacho and brought in wing backs like Dorgu. Return to 4231 and they have only 1 winger and no decent full backs.

West Ham have done the same for years and havent quite known what they want the team to look like in 2 years. Bournemouth, Fulham, Brighton and Brentford are light years ahead.

It all works when you have players who specifically fit roles. This is a journey we are on but it’s going to take a couple of years before it properly works.

Our problem is that Nestor sold it. If he would have quietly behind the scenes brought in a model, it wouldnt even get a mention. Now because he has sold a big game and it hasnt worked yet, people are questioning him.

[On Balance]

Good post OB. For me, United has failed because it hasnt had a player model, like we are getting towards. United has played 4231 for years and built its side around it. They then appoint Amorim who wants 343 and totally different players. Now I bet they revert to a manager that wants 4231.

The problem with that is succession planning. They got rid of wingers like Garnacho and brought in wing backs like Dorgu. Return to 4231 and they have only 1 winger and no decent full backs.

West Ham have done the same for years and havent quite known what they want the team to look like in 2 years. Bournemouth, Fulham, Brighton and Brentford are light years ahead.

It all works when you have players who specifically fit roles. This is a journey we are on but it??s going to take a couple of years before it properly works.

Our problem is that Nestor sold it. If he would have quietly behind the scenes brought in a model, it wouldnt even get a mention. Now because he has sold a big game and it hasnt worked yet, people are questioning him.

I hope Matt you are right. One thing I have is patience and I see things like you perhaps, in the long term rather than the short term. We differ possibly when it comes to models in football. However, I would be the first to put my hands up and say I am wrong if we improve over the next two or three seasons.

My dislike is the changing of managers/coaches just looking for short term success. If something is going to work it needs to be given time. I am happy to give Nestor and Mason much longer because the thought of starting with a new man/men would definitely put us back good while, without any guarantee of success or that things would get better instantly, before we go around again.

[baggieal]

Good post OB. For me, United has failed because it hasnt had a player model, like we are getting towards. United has played 4231 for years and built its side around it. They then appoint Amorim who wants 343 and totally different players. Now I bet they revert to a manager that wants 4231.

The problem with that is succession planning. They got rid of wingers like Garnacho and brought in wing backs like Dorgu. Return to 4231 and they have only 1 winger and no decent full backs.

West Ham have done the same for years and havent quite known what they want the team to look like in 2 years. Bournemouth, Fulham, Brighton and Brentford are light years ahead.

It all works when you have players who specifically fit roles. This is a journey we are on but it’s going to take a couple of years before it properly works.

Our problem is that Nestor sold it. If he would have quietly behind the scenes brought in a model, it wouldnt even get a mention. Now because he has sold a big game and it hasnt worked yet, people are questioning him.

Do you honestly expect fans to be patient with Nestors player model.

Heggebo/Campbell - almost 10 million and way over priced for me.
Junior - poor
Mepham/Phillips - average
Bany - waste of 3 million
Taylor - average
Gilchrist - little seen to evaluate
Youngsters - never get opportunities!

We need a director of player recruitment in my eyes like an Ashworth. I would question Nestors knowledge and experience!

Nestor is pulling the strings and chose a young manager who has never managed a club before or had any championship experience.

God help us if huge wage earners like Wallace, Dike or Maja are not moved on. I think many would grab anything over 3 million for Grant whose end product is not great!

It does not take a footballing genius to understand our midfield lacks creativity, is to slow and lacks talent. A very talented Collyer was not given a consistent run of games.

Supporters are seeing it. Millwall and Hull don?t have better players but good managers. More and more supporters are staying away. Not selling out for Leicester away and only 3000 is embarrassing but understandable with what supporters have seen other travels.

[kettering_baggie]

Manchester United just ooze arrogance, over recent years they have got worse, they seem to think that success is their birthright. Manure must have more plastic fans, glory hunters, than any other club, which is why I dislike them so much. Football in general, though, is nothing like it used to be; I don’t see any ‘sport’ in the Premier League and there is an argument that says that the further down the football pyramid you go, the better the football is!

[baggieal]

Manchester United just ooze arrogance, over recent years they have got worse, they seem to think that success is their birthright. Manure must have more plastic fans, glory hunters, than any other club, which is why I dislike them so much. Football in general, though, is nothing like it used to be; I don’t see any ‘sport’ in the Premier League and there is an argument that says that the further down the football pyramid you go, the better the football is!

Man Utd are like West Brom in terms of awful recruitment! That?s what it?s all about - paying the right money for excellent players who will get better. Anyway they will be tempted to pay 15 million for Grant?

[baggiematt]

I think there has been ups and downs but overall the recruitment has been quite good.

Heggebo at 5m was a good signing
Heggem at 600k was a phenomenal signing
Campbell at 1m was a good signing
Price at 2.5m was a good signing
Mepham for 1m was a good signing
Bielik for 1m was a good signing (I think?)

I still like Phillips but time will tell as he has been a touch off in recent weeks

The loans have been poor but given we dont have to keep them it is lower risk. Bany has been a disaster but some bad luck in that.

Gilchrist is possibly the only one I have been disappointed in but he has time to prove otherwise