Interesting similarities between ourselves and Norwich.

[Omegstrat6]

Now living in the area, I often feel that Albion and Norwich are quite similar in terms of fan base size and atmosphere but speaking to a few Canary supporters yesterday it was interesting to hear how their thoughts on how Norwich ended up in the bottom three echo our own concerns.

Like ourselves, there is no hard evidence to support all of their suspicions, but certainly a lot of their concerns were around the appointment of a Sporting Director who had too much influence but not enough footballing nouse, a big over-reliance on "data" and a manager who too rigidly stuck to a system that tried to put square pegs in round holes. I don't know if this is indicative of modern football in general but certainly sounds familiar!

Like ourselves, Norwich are American owned and fans were very unhappy and critical of both their Sporting Director (Ben Knapper) and manager (Liam Manning) as the club slid down the table. The sacking of Manning and the appointment of a new manager has turned their fortunes around and may have saved Knapper but fans still remain sceptical of his influence.

The quality of Norwich's squad is certainly no better than our own so let's just hope that Nestor leaving and the appointment of a new manager (who seems to have at least learnt lessons around playing to our strengths) can see a similar turn around in our own fortunes!

[kettering_baggie]

My son in law is a Norwich fan, he pretty much says what you have just posted. I’ve always enjoyed my days out going to Carrow Road, lots of great pubs in Norwich, although that particular pleasure is now denied to me!

[Omegstrat6]

My son in law is a Norwich fan, he pretty much says what you have just posted. I?ve always enjoyed my days out going to Carrow Road, lots of great pubs in Norwich, although that particular pleasure is now denied to me!

Sorry to hear the latter Ketts. Don't drink much myself these days (and too bloody expensive these days to drink out regularly) but, you're right, there are some good pubs.

Like all places, there are some not so nice areas but Norwich generally is a nice city and lots of historical Medieval buildings etc. You have to get used to "normal for Norfolk" of course 😁 but the county is a nice place to live in.

I sometimes get given tickets to sit amongst the home fans at Carrow Road when we play them but haven't ever had a problem and they're generally a good bunch of supporters.

[kettering_baggie]

I like Norfolk generally, my daughter lives in Attleborough, a nice little town. As for beer, it seems as if I may have a gluten intolerance, which would explain why I often feel bad after just a pint! So, cider it is…..!

[Omegstrat6]

I like Norfolk generally, my daughter lives in Attleborough, a nice little town. As for beer, it seems as if I may have a gluten intolerance, which would explain why I often feel bad after just a pint! So, cider it is…..!

Quite a few brewers now produce both ales and lagers marketed as gluten free which are easy enough to get online and most supermarkets do one of two lines though you'd be hard pressed to find them in pubs/ restaurants. The problem is that they are more accurately gluten-reduced rather than totally gluten free. I guess it depends on your level of tolerance but as the better half has celiacs, I understand why you might not want to take the risk.

As for cider, my own preferred tipple is Henry Westons Vintage-ideal chilled for on a summer's day -though it is rather more-ish so not advisable to drive or do too much after imbibing other than perhaps taking a small nap😎

[baggiematt]

I just posted on another thread that they have quietly spent £30m this summer on a lot of players, most havent worked out.

I believe a data approach is a good start in identifying players to scout. However the risk with foreign transfers is that they can be good in different leagues and not robust enough to make it here. But British players come with a premium and you cant usually buy talent without a big outlay.

Brighton are a great example, but they quietly have as many duds as they do great signings. They bought 10 players above 10m last season, most of which above 20m and only a few have made it.

That said Norwich have got some gems out of the big outlay. From what I have seen of that Pelle Mattson, hes up there as one of the best midfielders in the league. Some of their younger lads might need a season before making their mark.

For every Perreira there is a Zuiverloon.

[Omegstrat6]

I just posted on another thread that they have quietly spent £30m this summer on a lot of players, most havent worked out.

I believe a data approach is a good start in identifying players to scout. However the risk with foreign transfers is that they can be good in different leagues and not robust enough to make it here. But British players come with a premium and you cant usually buy talent without a big outlay.

Brighton are a great example, but they quietly have as many duds as they do great signings. They bought 10 players above 10m last season, most of which above 20m and only a few have made it.

That said Norwich have got some gems out of the big outlay. From what I have seen of that Pelle Mattson, hes up there as one of the best midfielders in the league. Some of their younger lads might need a season before making their mark.

For every Perreira there is a Zuiverloon.

Totally agree with you Matt, particularly your second paragraph. I think part of the issue around the success/ failure ratio of players brought in is also that there are a lot of clubs with similar budgets all looking at a lot of the same players and this may mean that they don't get the chance to evaluate them properly over a length of time. With the competition also looking at their targets, perhaps they feel under pressure to get in first for fear of losing them and maybe also offering more money to swing the deal?

As for data, of course it is a good place to start but IMHO, as I mentioned in a previous thread, the problem with over-reliance on the "facts" of data is three-fold. Firstly, there is the question of whether the person making the judgement based on them "has all the facts" to begin with, secondly there is the issue of interpretation in as much that certain data can be ignored or downplayed with others highlighted to better support a particular bias and, thirdly, the human element can be much harder to quantify by facts/ data/ statistics alone. It seems to me that judgements in most fields require a combination of "art" and "science" with much of the "art" bit being around the person making the judgement having sound experience in that particular field. Not a new concept I know as the old trope of those at the sharp end making derogatory comments about the decisions of "bean counters" indicates.

Data can certainly be useful to disprove some "feelings" about how well or not a player performs or help judge whether pre-requisites have been met but it isn't the whole story.

[baggieal]

Totally agree with you Matt, particularly your second paragraph. I think part of the issue around the success/ failure ratio of players brought in is also that there are a lot of clubs with similar budgets all looking at a lot of the same players and this may mean that they don't get the chance to evaluate them properly over a length of time. With the competition also looking at their targets, perhaps they feel under pressure to get in first for fear of losing them and maybe also offering more money to swing the deal?

As for data, of course it is a good place to start but IMHO, as I mentioned in a previous thread, the problem with over-reliance on the "facts" of data is three-fold. Firstly, there is the question of whether the person making the judgement based on them "has all the facts" to begin with, secondly there is the issue of interpretation in as much that certain data can be ignored or downplayed with others highlighted to better support a particular bias and, thirdly, the human element can be much harder to quantify by facts/ data/ statistics alone. It seems to me that judgements in most fields require a combination of "art" and "science" with much of the "art" bit being around the person making the judgement having sound experience in that particular field. Not a new concept I know as the old trope of those at the sharp end making derogatory comments about the decisions of "bean counters" indicates.

Data can certainly be useful to disprove some "feelings" about how well or not a player performs or help judge whether pre-requisites have been met but it isn't the whole story.

I hope it was not data that brought in players like Junior on over 5OK a week and flat footed Heggebo for almost 5 million plus of course Taylor, Gilchrist etc. Whilst data can help it?s clearly obvious with your own eyes that Bostock and Williams could easily slot into the side now! Was it data that let two decent players leave ie Caleb and Reyes who are doing brilliant for their clubs. It was not data that was clearly obvious that Fellows was on a different level to Wallace - it was the injury situation at the time!

Pointless having data if you have two people ie Patel and Nestor who know f uck all about football and especially the. Championship.

[Omegstrat6]

I hope it was not data that brought in players like Junior on over 5OK a week and flat footed Heggebo for almost 5 million plus of course Taylor, Gilchrist etc. Whilst data can help it?s clearly obvious with your own eyes that Bostock and Williams could easily slot into the side now! Was it data that let two decent players leave ie Caleb and Reyes who are doing brilliant for their clubs. It was not data that was clearly obvious that Fellows was on a different level to Wallace - it was the injury situation at the time!

Pointless having data if you have two people ie Patel and Nestor who know f uck all about football and especially the. Championship.

That's my point Al! The data is only as useful as the people using it to make decisions.

Also-as football is obviously a team sport-the performance or under- performance of individual players is also heavily reliant on others whether team mates or tactics/ formation. Surely any data then has to allow for a degree of context? A number 9 played as a lone striker with little or no support isn't going to maximise their goal scoring potential for example just as being a natural winger won't mean that they will be a decent wing back. I'm sure we can all think of players who have underperformed then flourished when played in a system that better suits them.

[baggieal]

That's my point Al! The data is only as useful as the people using it to make decisions.

Also-as football is obviously a team sport-the performance or under- performance of individual players is also heavily reliant on others whether team mates or tactics/ formation. Surely any data then has to allow for a degree of context? A number 9 played as a lone striker with little or no support isn't going to maximise their goal scoring potential for example just as being a natural winger won't mean that they will be a decent wing back. I'm sure we can all think of players who have underperformed then flourished when played in a system that better suits them.

Bang on there Omeg as usual! You watching tonight or working?

[Omegstrat6]

Bang on there Omeg as usual! You watching tonight or working?

I'm off this week Al so will be able to watch tonight for a change and some beers and snacks lined up ready. Must admit to being a little unsure of how it will pan out but as both my Dad and brothers are Bluenoses I hope we can at least put in a decent performance and take a point minimum!

[baggieal]

I'm off this week Al so will be able to watch tonight for a change and some beers and snacks lined up ready. Must admit to being a little unsure of how it will pan out but as both my Dad and brothers are Bluenoses I hope we can at least put in a decent performance and take a point minimum!

Not optimistic Omeg as they will be thinking if they win they will be in the top six. We will see and enjoy the beers 🍺

[baggieal]

Winning again tonight! They will put out the reserves Saturday and still beat us. With a bit of luck Bostock might even get 5 minutes!