Polanski

[baggieal]

I read that this is against the law, as you cant place a constituency under disadvantage for not voting for a particular party. No doubt he will have to rescind the policy, which is stupid when you think about it.

It just shows Farage for who he has always been: a person who doesnt really care about the country. He didnt with Brexit and he doesnt now.

Our grandchildren will be paying for the mess Farage has left and that poor Tory regime before him, that are now part of Reform. They are unvoteable in my opinion.

Re Polanski, I think he is bold and stupid enough to say something that is right, irrespective of it being popular. It wasnt right that a police officer kicked a man in the head whilst restrained on the floor, irrespective of the crimes they had just committed. Was it in his, or the lefts interest to say this, absolutely not. No one cares about the treatment of terrorists.

You honestly can not convince me nobody when voting Brexit knew non EU nationals were not part of the equation. Even my 12 year knew that one FFS!

Starmer sold the election on business growth and investment and smashing the illegal gangs. Well the girl from accounts who speaks like Stacie Sullivan has smashed business growth with huge taxation and the only boat Starmer has stopped is the warship arriving three weeks late in Cyprus. What a complete embarrassment,

Brexit would never work in a million years under this government who are already back tracking and too in bed with other left leaning leaders. Interesting how Maloni told Starmer to get his house in order 😂

Many who tipped the Brexit vote were the older generation of which many would not vote for Reform. That said do you honestly think students would vote for Labour with their spiralling debt which is getting worse?

Your typical Labour supporters more than ever now are those from certain communities, multiple kids from different fathers, bone idle and no doubt scoff pizzas and burgers on their benefits. The NHS is failing because of huge population growth, students who can?t afford to study medicine for 5 years and fat folk with health issues due to fast food once their welfare credit arrives. In addition to this folk who commit heinous crimes happening every other day who play the mental health card.

[baggiematt]

You honestly can not convince me nobody when voting Brexit knew non EU nationals were not part of the equation. Even my 12 year knew that one FFS!

Starmer sold the election on business growth and investment and smashing the illegal gangs. Well the girl from accounts who speaks like Stacie Sullivan has smashed business growth with huge taxation and the only boat Starmer has stopped is the warship arriving three weeks late in Cyprus. What a complete embarrassment,

Brexit would never work in a million years under this government who are already back tracking and too in bed with other left leaning leaders. Interesting how Maloni told Starmer to get his house in order 😂

Many who tipped the Brexit vote were the older generation of which many would not vote for Reform. That said do you honestly think students would vote for Labour with their spiralling debt which is getting worse?

Your typical Labour supporters are those from certain communities, multiple kids from different fathers, bone idle and no doubt scoff pizzas and burgers on their benefits. The NHS is failing because of huge population growth, students who can?t afford to study medicine for 5 years and fat folk with health issues due to fast food once their welfare credit arrives. In addition to this folk who commit heinous crimes happening every other day who play the mental health card.

Al there are literally polls out there as to why people voted brexit and immigration was the main reason.

Personally I dont like Starmer much, certainly not as much as you do, but I think we are safer with him than Farage. I also think Starmers cabinet are better than what reforms are.

Jenrick ffs, the bloke is as crooked as they come taking dodgy payments from a gym company with 1 employee and he will be over the treasury!

Tices is no stranger to tax avoidance. He has more accounts in his pets names than Harry Redknapp.

30p Lee will be moving to the Greens next. Its the only party he hasnt served yet and he cant spell Liberal Democrat

[baggieal]

Al there are literally polls out there as to why people voted brexit and immigration was the main reason.

Personally I dont like Starmer much, certainly not as much as you do, but I think we are safer with him than Farage. I also think Starmers cabinet are better than what reforms are.

Jenrick ffs, the bloke is as crooked as they come taking dodgy payments from a gym company with 1 employee and he will be over the treasury!

Tices is no stranger to tax avoidance. He has more accounts in his pets names than Harry Redknapp.

30p Lee will be moving to the Greens next. Its the only party he hasnt served yet and he cant spell Liberal Democrat

They are all crooked Matt! Rayner defrauded the tax payer and can see her taking over from Starmer. He loves his freebies like the Emirates and his ? friends ? flat plus he knowingly appointed a *****! 100% he should have fallen on his sword!

People are selfish. I live in a beautiful town with a left leaning council and most would not like Reform. Most are all selfish and don?t care about illegals but God forbid - they would if camps were set up ( like Crowborough ) and their kids were at risk. Believe me!

Nothing wrong with Reform saying if Greens want to welcome refugees then this can be embraced in their own Green constituencies. Nobody else wants them and it?s understandable from a safety perspective and it?s costing absolutely millions.

Again Brexit had nothing to do with non EU immigration and this was blatantly obvious unless a person was thick.

I don?t vote but my vote would go to a leader who stops illegal immigration, encourages business growth and outside investment, rewrites the ECHR, takes a much harder stance on crime and justice and puts the pride back into the country. Some of my family are Spanish and they are a proud nation and their flag flys proudly on every public building. They are very welcoming too but if you don?t like their culture you are welcome to leave. As it should be.

I look forward to Friday!

[kettering_baggie]

The arguments for and against Brexit seem to me to be pointless, as we have not had a government willing to wholeheartedly commit to it. The Tories fractured and fell apart and Labour would never, ever take the steps necessary to make it work. We need pragmatic politicians who are prepared to put this country and its citizens first, MAGA (Make Albion Great Again), then, when the economy is strong enough, we could initiate more far reaching policies. If you can’t put your own house in order, then you have no chance on wider issues. Starmer and this utterly dreadful Labour Party couldn’t put a dolls house in order!

[Omegstrat6]

Too many people are selfish Omeg. For example my views on illegal immigration are stronger than yours but there lies the question. If illegals started roaming around or lived within walking distance to your house and girls were at risk hand in heart you would object. This is the problem when idiots like Gary Neville scream racist to most things they consider far right. Would Mr Neville like a camp of illegals on his door step causing unrest and properties not to sell. Of course not! In my town which is left leaning they do not like Reform but oh my God there would be huge objections if illegals moved into the town. A clever statement by Reform - if Greens want to welcome refugees then they can have them within their constituencies. You
can?t have your cake and eat it. Vote Green and then you should expect illegals.

As Ketts said not everything Trump says is wrong and many things he says happens to be true. He said UK Cities are becoming unrecognisable which is true. We live in England and not Bangladesh FFS and yes I am sick of seeing Palestinian flags. There?s two laws in this country or it?s getting that way.

Nothing wrong with deportation and doing what John Terry suggests - give these illegals nothing as it?s the honey that attracts the bees. In simple terms the INN is full otherwise the country will be leaning towards bankruptcy.

In an uncertain world - as most of these illegals are single men under 30 why do we not reinstate conscription. Surely if they want to come to England then they won?t mind doing their bit for King and Country. We are far too soft and yes crime is getting worse. Any illegal that causes crimes should be immediately deported. ECHR some may shout but then rewrite the rules. If an illegal has raped a local and uses the line about being murdered in their homeland after such an heinous crime - should anybody care!

Morning Al. Whilst you may hold stronger views than myself on illegal immigration, I think we agree on more issues around the subject than we differ. I agree, for example, that:

1) The current levels of illegal (and just as concerning legal) immigration are far too high and not sustainable. The inn, as you say, is full.

2) Shabana Mahmood may be making some headway on tackling those coming over by boat but short of sinking them before they reach our shores (something most would not countenance) this remains a very difficult thing to control. A better strategy would be to make the UK a far less appealing place for such immigrants to want to come in the first place. To this end, we should firstly ensure :

3) The bench mark for the acceptance of any asylum claims should be set higher with far better vetting/ investigation. This would prevent scams such as the recent one where Pakistani traffickers were giving advice to their clients as to how to fraudulently claim that they were in fear of their lives in their home country because they were gay. It would also help prevent those with criminal records that may pose a threat to the UK or it's citizens being granted asylum.

4) Anyone who has been granted asylum should be immediately deported back to their home land if they have since committed a crime in the UK via a fast-track system that prevents the legal hold-ups that we have seen in the past. This should be regardless of the culture of their home country or any threats that may pose.

5) That dedicated and secure holding centres are established for asylum seekers awaiting processing.

6) That the processing system itself needs to be urgently speeded up

All the above will take both time and extra funding but that money will surely be well spent if these measures work.

Where we disagree is likely over the nature of illegal immigrants. It is irrefutable that some have been found guilty of either criminality or of violent ***ual assault but I think that there is still an agenda from the right to try and tar all illegal immigrants with the same brush. The trope of the vast majority of such immigrants being single young men who all engage in such criminality or pose a threat to our young women is not born out by the evidence. There are plenty of young families, as well as single men, stuck in accommodation up and down the country awaiting processing, many of whom are separated from each other by hundreds of miles. The overwhelming majority of these surely just want to get on, get jobs and create better lives for themselves.

For genuine asylum seekers who may be granted acceptance, many of these may also have been in real fear of their lives and have been subjected to trafficking, criminality or physical or ***ual violence. Controversial as this may be, given that such support for our own British nationals in this country is currently woefully poor, I would still advocate that these be given appropriate help and support to enable them to transition to their new lives in the UK and be able to economically support themselves and contribute. This may cost money initially but would surely save money medium/ long term as we don't need to add to our already over heavy benefits bill. The same reasoning should, of course, already apply to helping our own in similar situations who have had to deal with such trauma.

[baggieal]

Morning Al. Whilst you may hold stronger views than myself on illegal immigration, I think we agree on more issues around the subject than we differ. I agree, for example, that:

1) The current levels of illegal (and just as concerning legal) immigration are far too high and not sustainable. The inn, as you say, is full.

2) Shabana Mahmood may be making some headway on tackling those coming over by boat but short of sinking them before they reach our shores (something most would not countenance) this remains a very difficult thing to control. A better strategy would be to make the UK a far less appealing place for such immigrants to want to come in the first place. To this end, we should firstly ensure :

3) The bench mark for the acceptance of any asylum claims should be set higher with far better vetting/ investigation. This would prevent scams such as the recent one where Pakistani traffickers were giving advice to their clients as to how to fraudulently claim that they were in fear of their lives in their home country because they were gay. It would also help prevent those with criminal records that may pose a threat to the UK or it's citizens being granted asylum.

4) Anyone who has been granted asylum should be immediately deported back to their home land if they have since committed a crime in the UK via a fast-track system that prevents the legal hold-ups that we have seen in the past. This should be regardless of the culture of their home country or any threats that may pose.

5) That dedicated and secure holding centres are established for asylum seekers awaiting processing.

6) That the processing system itself needs to be urgently speeded up

All the above will take both time and extra funding but that money will surely be well spent if these measures work.

Where we disagree is likely over the nature of illegal immigrants. It is irrefutable that some have been found guilty of either criminality or of violent ***ual assault but I think that there is still an agenda from the right to try and tar all illegal immigrants with the same brush. The trope of the vast majority of such immigrants being single young men who all engage in such criminality or pose a threat to our young women is not born out by the evidence. There are plenty of young families, as well as single men, stuck in accommodation up and down the country awaiting processing, many of whom are separated from each other by hundreds of miles. The overwhelming majority of these surely just want to get on, get jobs and create better lives for themselves.

For genuine asylum seekers who may be granted acceptance, many of these may also have been in real fear of their lives and have been subjected to trafficking, criminality or physical or ***ual violence. Controversial as this may be, given that such support for our own British nationals in this country is currently woefully poor, I would still advocate that these be given appropriate help and support to enable them to transition to their new lives in the UK and be able to economically support themselves and contribute. This may cost money initially but would surely save money medium/ long term as we don't need to add to our already over heavy benefits bill. The same reasoning should, of course, already apply to helping our own in similar situations who have had to deal with such trauma.

Hi Omeg - those are your views so fair enough but not mine. Sadly most illegals come here for the honey and because we are a soft touch. Why for instance do they not go to Poland which is now a fantastic country? The reason is because they are not welcome and will get nothing.

Sadly we can?t help the world. Should we help Somalia where gangs are slaying innocents and girls are gang raped at 12? You know what happened in Afghanistan and it?s reverted back to the way it was with women no better than dog
s hit on a shoe. Very sad but that?s the way it is.

So for me unless immigration is through legal routes then everybody should be deported. We need to look after our own otherwise the country will end up bankrupt and unrecognisable. Do those escaping Gaza and Iran receive sanctuary in the very rich Middle East neighbours? No - they won?t have them. Why should we!

Nothing should change either to accommodate these people. When I lived in Spain I followed Spanish culture andcwas fluent within a year.

Can Westerners make demands in Dubai with religious buildings - kiss in public - wear revealing clothes - drink alcohol in the streets? No - you follow the local norm and rules or you are locked up. Don?t like it then do not go!

Most immigrants who have taken the legal route with successful jobs agree with the above too! The ones that do not are the white lefties who yes would welcome the world like the idiot Polanski whose own family have disowned him.

Priority every time for our own people!

[Omegstrat6]

Hi Omeg - those are your views so fair enough but not mine. Sadly most illegals come here for the honey and because we are a soft touch. Why for instance do they not go to Poland which is now a fantastic country? The reason is because they are not welcome and will get nothing.

Sadly we can?t help the world. Should we help Somalia where gangs are slaying innocents and girls are gang raped at 12? You know what happened in Afghanistan and it?s reverted back to the way it was with women no better than dog
s hit on a shoe. Very sad but that?s the way it is.

So for me unless immigration is through legal routes then everybody should be deported. We need to look after our own otherwise the country will end up bankrupt and unrecognisable. Do those escaping Gaza and Iran receive sanctuary in the very rich Middle East neighbours? No - they won?t have them. Why should we!

Nothing should change either to accommodate these people. When I lived in Spain I followed Spanish culture andcwas fluent within a year.

Can Westerners make demands in Dubai with religious buildings - kiss in public - wear revealing clothes - drink alcohol in the streets? No - you follow the local norm and rules or you are locked up. Don?t like it then do not go!

Most immigrants who have taken the legal route with successful jobs agree with the above too! The ones that do not are the white lefties who yes would welcome the world like the idiot Polanski whose own family have disowned him.

Priority every time for our own people!

Hi Al. Don't disagree with your first or last points.

Increasing our population through net migration of around 400,000 a year is absolutely ridiculous and completely unsustainable so both legal and illegal immigration needs urgently curbing.

At the moment we need foreign workers to fulfil certain jobs in better paid sectors because we lack the necessary numbers of our own with the relevant qualifications while other foreign workers fulfil jobs in lower paid sectors that many Brits don't want to do. This situation clearly cannot continue. Surely we can attract our own young people into the higher paid sectors to ultimately negate the need for importing so much of the expertise we currently need from abroad? And surely a better carrot/ stick benefits system could get more people into work even if it is into these poorer paid sectors? The factors influencing both are doubtless quite nuanced but these surely have to be two key objectives for the future.

Given the current issues the country faces, I believe that all economic migrants should be turned back and only genuine cases, where there is a clear threat to their lives, should be considered for asylum. Illegal immigrants will be made up of both of course and I didn't mean in my last post that we should accept those coming here for primarily economic reasons because we simply cannot afford do so.

And, yes, the priority has to be helping our own, especially at a time of increasing inequality and economic hardship and when the growing Gig economy, and advances in technology already threaten opportunities.

[WBA123]

I think the OBR are the best source of information and they have done post brexit analysis that has found it has cost us ?‚£32b a year since on top of divorce payments. It is likely to impact for 15 years. And yes they take into account the money paid in that we no longer are and no they dont just analyse other countries performance and make a bogus conclusion.

They measured the fact that the year after brexit we had an 18% reduction in investment, because why would you invest in a country that has restrictions on trade with its next door neighbours?

Its been 10 years and several different leaders. The cards are not in our hands to get a better deal from the EU.

The facts have to be faced up, we got nothing and we paid dearly. Totally and utterly conned by a polite rich man. Happy to take any facts on the subject of what we got vs what it cost, but I doubt anyone will locate anything of substance that changes my perspective.

You are talking too much common sense for most Brexiteers to understand you I'm afraid mate.

There is no point in even discussing it now, because its like a cult. And if you notice, when Brexit isn't a success - then it must clearly the fault of others - like those who negotiated it. Or Remainers fault for not believing in it hard enough.

Those who will not shoulder any responsibility though are - the gullible fools who voted for it, the imbeciles who still think its been positive for the country - oh yeah, and the guy who influenced the outcome more than any other. He left us £100bn per year worse off, and is now leading the polls - I think because voters in this country really like being poorer.

The country is going down the pan - and it isn't because of immigrants. It's because we elect people like Farage and Boris Johnson.

[WBA123]

Ultimately, Brexit will be seen to be very advantageous to GB, providing that some moron like Starmer doesn?’t backtrack on it. Our Service industries are thriving and this would not be possible if we were still being dictated to by Brussels. The biggest bonus for me regarding Brexit is to be free of the EU straight jacket and, of course, many will disagree with me but that is the benefit of having free speech; although even that is being slowly chipped away at!

Blimey. What a take this is.

I'm tempted to ask for some of what you're taking.

[Omegstrat6]

I've long worked in retail but also know quite a few who work in the care sector, education and hospitality (including some who own their own small businesses) and "thriving" is, sadly, certainly not the word I would use to describe service industries around my area Ketts. Unless you refer to the raft of job vacancies on offer for part time/ low paid care workers or delivery drivers for the likes of Evri or Amazon or else the continuing growth of the gig economy exploited by Deliveroo etc.

(Btw, Aziz Ansari's "Good Fortune" with Seth Rogan and Keanu Reeves (as an inept angel) does a pretty good job of pointing out the exploitative nature of the gig economy in the US while cloaking it in comedy. A kind of mash up of "Its a Wonderful Life" and "Trading Places" with a touch of Travolta's "Michael", it's message applies to the UK too)

As for Brexit, despite the continuing gain-saying and nay-saying from both sides, I find it difficult to accept that anyone can legitimately argue that the country has benefited from it. I'm sure that I have also read somewhere that whilst populist pressure led Cameron to agree to having the referendum, even he had his doubts about Brexit and at the time of announcing this back in 2013, he personally still hoped -and thought -that it would be ultimately rejected. By the time of the actual vote in 2016, of course, the rhetoric around it had magnified greatly.

The EU certainly wasn't perfect but I have always personally felt that it would have been better to push harder for change from within rather than to leave it entirely, especially with all the uncertainties that entailed. Ultimately, for myself, I felt the positives of remaining in the EU outweighed the negatives.

The UK is no longer a great power on the international stage and history has shown that "splendid isolation" didn't work for us even when we did have that power. The world has changed and no country can afford not to forge both economic or military ties with others.

[kettering_baggie]

I was referring to banking, insurance and finance in general; doing very wel, I understand. It is certainly true that we haven’t had a decent government for a long time, so you can bemoan the exit from the EU as much as you like but we have not had the parliamentary will to seize the possible advantages. I know most of you will disagree with me, that doesn’t make me wrong, though, just that my perception of the myriad issues is different!

[Omegstrat6]

I was referring to banking, insurance and finance in general; doing very wel, I understand. It is certainly true that we haven’t had a decent government for a long time, so you can bemoan the exit from the EU as much as you like but we have not had the parliamentary will to seize the possible advantages. I know most of you will disagree with me, that doesn’t make me wrong, though, just that my perception of the myriad issues is different!

Sorry Ketts, I know that the finance sector falls under the "service" industries umbrella but I always tend to think more of retail/ hospitality/ care.

I agree with you that the banking and finance sectors are doing well, which is good, but the problem is that although they are very important for the economy and generate around 12% of the country's GDP, they are still very London-centric and only employ about 4.4% of the working population. Only a relative few really benefit from the profits they generate.

As for Brexit, I don't disagree with you that successive governments (mostly Conservative, of course) haven't done the best they might have with some of the opportunities that it created but we will have to agree to differ on whether it was a good idea or not in the first place.

[baggiematt]

I was referring to banking, insurance and finance in general; doing very wel, I understand. It is certainly true that we haven’t had a decent government for a long time, so you can bemoan the exit from the EU as much as you like but we have not had the parliamentary will to seize the possible advantages. I know most of you will disagree with me, that doesn’t make me wrong, though, just that my perception of the myriad issues is different!

What advantages are there though?

The best statistic you can find for how we are doing post brexit is GDP per capita. Thats literally our overall wealth and output per person. Pre brexit we were growing at a rate of 17.7% compared to Europes 15.7% between 2000 and 2016. 2016 to 2024 Europe grew by 10.5%, we grew at 3.9%.

We are quite literally just under 7% worse off post brexit. We feel 7% worse off too in a country struggling to move. We are poorer and going down the gdp per capita pecking order year on year.

You dont have to do a lot of research on how bad we have performed as a country post brexit compared to pre brexit.

We put restrictions on our biggest trading partners and we got nothing in return. Happy to listen to any tangible benefits we got out of it but I havent heard of or seen any yet.

Simply put, it was one of the worst decisions in history, promoted by a man who now wants to get the biggest job in the country on the back of tricking our people into making us poorer. Wake up people!

[baggieal]

What advantages are there though?

The best statistic you can find for how we are doing post brexit is GDP per capita. Thats literally our overall wealth and output per person. Pre brexit we were growing at a rate of 17.7% compared to Europes 15.7% between 2000 and 2016. 2016 to 2024 Europe grew by 10.5%, we grew at 3.9%.

We are quite literally just under 7% worse off post brexit. We feel 7% worse off too in a country struggling to move. We are poorer and going down the gdp per capita pecking order year on year.

You dont have to do a lot of research on how bad we have performed as a country post brexit compared to pre brexit.

We put restrictions on our biggest trading partners and we got nothing in return. Happy to listen to any tangible benefits we got out of it but I havent heard of or seen any yet.

Simply put, it was one of the worst decisions in history, promoted by a man who now wants to get the biggest job in the country on the back of tricking our people into making us poorer. Wake up people!

Are you referring to Two Tier about tricking our people with empty promises and being the worst PM in history. I did not vote for Brexit but had I done so it was not because of stopping immigration because non EU immigration had nothing to do with it and everyone with half a brain knew that. You will never know if Brexit could work properly unless there was a competent leader in place.

Would you or you wife be happy with illegal immigrants on your doorstep or near by? If you say yes then that?s one big lie.

Many will vote for anyone who can grow the economy - restore services to how they were and stop this country becoming a land of illegals on benefits waving their little flags!

[baggiematt]

Are you referring to Two Tier about tricking our people with empty promises and being the worst PM in history.

No not referring to him at all.

How do we know if a deal to restrict trade with our biggest trading partners for absolutely no benefit could be managed better by a better PM?

Thats a bit like saying, how do we know if Jordan Hugill wasnt a world class striker with a better manager than Ismael and Bruce.

The answer is the same for both.