Charlie Kirk has been shot and as sadley died

[soulman101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxEOAQoEtrc

[soulman101]

Some reports say he is still critical .

[Dubbag]

Well at the moment it looks like he is still dead.

[WBA123]

Absolute madness. It just shows you how divisive politics is right now.

I speak as someone who does not agree with the majority of what he said. Having said that, he was obviously a bright individual and was perfectly entitled to his opinions. Political violence is never the answer, whichever side of the political spectrum you are on.

[baggieal]

Absolute madness. It just shows you how divisive politics is right now.

I speak as someone who does not agree with the majority of what he said. Having said that, he was obviously a bright individual and was perfectly entitled to his opinions. Political violence is never the answer, whichever side of the political spectrum you are on.

Agree! People get wound up and do things they will regret. Bit like pure stupidity from people in power calling all those protesting outside hotels - Far Right! Many in fact are mothers who worry about further s exual assaults on school runs. I get it but the people in power don?t and are get their priorities wrong.

[Omegstrat6]

Disagreed with a lot of what Kirk said and believed in but this was yet another example of how the use of violence rather than debate has sadly begun to grow in the US-and IMHO Trump's own rhetoric and actions have only inflamed things. What happened to Kirk was appalling regardless of your views on his opinions.

Very sadly, both right and left wing extremists are jumping on this. The right (unsurprisingly) talk of retribution and ramp up their opposition to gun control as they are either disingenuous or else too thick to understand the logic of more access to guns = higher risk of such shootings and keep to the "its not the gun, its the shooter" line. Ironically, I understand that Kirk was in the middle of talking about this (a view he supported) when he was shot.

On the other hand, there are those on the far left having a go at Gavin Newsom and other Democrats for decrying this horrendous act and some even celebrating Kirk's killing. America is a vast country with widely differing demographics and so it has long been understandably vulnerable to divisiveness but things certainly seem to be getting worse. Not sure what the answer is, but I am pretty sure that it is not a narcissistic president who previously incited an armed mob to storm the Capitol building.

[kettering_baggie]

The USA is a vast country with more than its fair share of nutters across the political spectrum but it is also a very welcoming country to visit, I loved my time in the States. You would be very unlucky indeed to get caught up in a shooting, probably just as likely as being in London or Liverpool.

[baggieal]

The USA is a vast country with more than its fair share of nutters across the political spectrum but it is also a very welcoming country to visit, I loved my time in the States. You would be very unlucky indeed to get caught up in a shooting, probably just as likely as being in London or Liverpool.

Couldn?t agree more Ketts. I travelled all around California this Summer and the people were absolutely fantastic. Many didn?t particularly like Trump but it?s a fact - illegal immigration is down to almost nothing. Trump has given the go-head for Ukraine to purchase long range missiles. But some have a short memory - it was wet lettuce Joe who dithered on not giving Ukraine permission to use long range missiles. The USA and Poland provide more support than the U.K. towards NATO than some moan. Some NATO countries provide zero support or missiles and yet many still blame Trump. If I was a USA tax payer I would want every NATO country to give the same percentage towards GDP or provide what some other NATO countries do - nothing!

As you say the USA is vast and the U.K. could fit into Florida alone so of course a shooting will be big news. I feel safer though in the US than many Cities in the U.K. where you could be stabbed to death. Also I would have less worry with my daughters being raped and assaulted in the US than here in the U.K. where it?s seems that girls are s exual objects to many of the illegals who roam many streets.

I am not a fan of Trump but he?s got more balls than Starmer ever will.

[baggiematt]

Awful that he was executed in cold blood and freedom of speech should always be protected but there wont be a short list of potential shooters.

Islamophobic, anti LGBT, a Russian sympathiser, believed Palestine shouldnt exist, anti-Europe etc.

Ironically he was anti gun laws too.

Share those views a bit too loudly and you get enemies.

[baggieal]

Awful that he was executed in cold blood and freedom of speech should always be protected but there wont be a short list of potential shooters.

Islamophobic, anti LGBT, a Russian sympathiser, believed Palestine shouldnt exist, anti-Europe etc.

Ironically he was anti gun laws too.

Share those views a bit too loudly and you get enemies.

Bit harsh Matt as he was allowed to say what he thought. Many wouldn?t disagree with his comments about the U.K. below. When I was touring California this Summer professional people were saying the same ie what?s gone wrong with thousands of young male illegals arriving daily and being put up in hotels!

Kirk described the UK as a ?totalitarian third world hellhole?, adding: ?It?s tragic. I don?t say that with glib, I don?t say that with delight. It is sad. It?s chilling and it?s depressing.?

He claimed he had seen a cafe in which ?every single table was taken by a Mohammedan and a fully burqa-wearing woman ? not a single native Brit? and that people were being arrested for online posts that displayed no apparent harmful intent.

?They invented free speech,? he said. ?Now there?s so much wrong with that country and it is not worthy of making fun of. I mean, you can have some laughs and some comedy, but it is depressing. It is dark.?

[baggiematt]

Bit harsh Matt as he was allowed to say what he thought. Many wouldn?t disagree with his comments about the U.K. below. When I was touring California this Summer professional people were saying the same ie what?s gone wrong with thousands of young male illegals arriving daily and being put up in hotels!

Kirk described the UK as a ?totalitarian third world hellhole?, adding: ?It?s tragic. I don?t say that with glib, I don?t say that with delight. It is sad. It?s chilling and it?s depressing.?

He claimed he had seen a cafe in which ?every single table was taken by a Mohammedan and a fully burqa-wearing woman ? not a single native Brit? and that people were being arrested for online posts that displayed no apparent harmful intent.

?They invented free speech,? he said. ?Now there?s so much wrong with that country and it is not worthy of making fun of. I mean, you can have some laughs and some comedy, but it is depressing. It is dark.?

Im not sure what Ive said thats harsh. He was a controversial social commentator and that comes with risk that someone will want to end you as a result. Its reality because its whats happened.

What I would say is that he was a very respectful and articulate debater and I think it would have been great if he put those skills to good rather than being so divisive.

But being divisive makes you rich. For example, the founder of GB News business partner was the founder of Antifa. They know exactly what theyre doing. I dont actually believe that Kirk believed all the crap he came out with.

[baggieal]

Im not sure what Ive said thats harsh. He was a controversial social commentator and that comes with risk that someone will want to end you as a result. Its reality because its whats happened.

What I would say is that he was a very respectful and articulate debater and I think it would have been great if he put those skills to good rather than being so divisive.

But being divisive makes you rich. For example, the founder of GB News business partner was the founder of Antifa. They know exactly what theyre doing. I dont actually believe that Kirk believed all the crap he came out with.

People will always have differing views - even in your own household. I thought what he said about the U.K. though was bang on - it?s becoming a s hit hole run by clowns. I wish our homeless had the same priority of all those illegals. Even many do gooders agree on that one.

[Omegstrat6]

That Kirk was assassinated for his expressing his beliefs and opinions is truly appalling but please let's not buy into Trump's eulogy of him as some kind of great American martyr. Sure, he wasn't wrong about everything but then no-one is and, despite all the "Jesus is King" BS he liked to spout like some kind of latter day Billy Graham, his views didn't seem terribly Christian to me and he spread and incited a lot of hatred.

At heart, Kirk was a bigot, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic and racist. Until he realised that it didn't play too well with Trump's political ambitions, he was also pretty anti-Semitic. Ingratiating himself with Ivanka, his skill at using social media to spread the MAGA message to young people made him very useful to Trump and this, in turn, also made him very rich.

To claim, however, that Kirk was some great defender of freedom and free speech is almost laughable. Trump and the MAGA leadership consistently accuse the UK of allowing wokeness to erode our free speech and it is undeniable that a lack of clarity in some of our laws coupled with overly self-entitled and vocal minority groups have enabled a degree of cancel culture -but the irony is that Trump is doing far worse in the USA.

This is a POTUS who hates criticism so much that he actively seeks to remove and replace individuals in the military, the judiciary and within government who might disagree with him and who doubles down on any media he doesn't like ( "fake news"). This is about control and that inevitably means censorship. MAGA aren't interested in debate. Why should they be? Outright lies, wild conspiracy theories (Q-anon/ Pizzagate) and mis-information are so much more fun- and tell them often enough and loud enough and there are plenty of people who will fall for it. Kirk was fully part of this.

He was apparently well read and a skilled debater but, given some of his entrenched views, I wonder how well Kirk might have done against a Hitchens or an O'Brien in a public debate.

I personally believe that Hate speech should have consequences but those consequences certainly should not be to be gunned down and those that celebrate his killing are as sick as some of the beliefs they protest against.

[baggiematt]

That Kirk was assassinated for his expressing his beliefs and opinions is truly appalling but please let's not buy into Trump's eulogy of him as some kind of great American martyr. Sure, he wasn't wrong about everything but then no-one is and, despite all the "Jesus is King" BS he liked to spout like some kind of latter day Billy Graham, his views didn't seem terribly Christian to me and he spread and incited a lot of hatred.

At heart, Kirk was a bigot, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic and racist. Until he realised that it didn't play too well with Trump's political ambitions, he was also pretty anti-Semitic. Ingratiating himself with Ivanka, his skill at using social media to spread the MAGA message to young people made him very useful to Trump and this, in turn, also made him very rich.

To claim, however, that Kirk was some great defender of freedom and free speech is almost laughable. Trump and the MAGA leadership consistently accuse the UK of allowing wokeness to erode our free speech and it is undeniable that a lack of clarity in some of our laws coupled with overly self-entitled and vocal minority groups have enabled a degree of cancel culture -but the irony is that Trump is doing far worse in the USA.

This is a POTUS who hates criticism so much that he actively seeks to remove and replace individuals in the military, the judiciary and within government who might disagree with him and who doubles down on any media he doesn't like ( "fake news"). This is about control and that inevitably means censorship. MAGA aren't interested in debate. Why should they be? Outright lies, wild conspiracy theories (Q-anon/ Pizzagate) and mis-information are so much more fun- and tell them often enough and loud enough and there are plenty of people who will fall for it. Kirk was fully part of this.

He was apparently well read and a skilled debater but, given some of his entrenched views, I wonder how well Kirk might have done against a Hitchens or an O'Brien in a public debate.

I personally believe that Hate speech should have consequences but those consequences certainly should not be to be gunned down and those that celebrate his killing are as sick as some of the beliefs they protest against.

Really well reasoned post. There are a lot of conmen in the western world at the moment, being led by the master conman Trump. All to change the narrative culturally around what the problems are, why they are caused and create victimhood.

The biggest difference now is that they are not only infiltrating platforms, they own them! They control a lot of what you see and dont see in the world.

Its not too dissimilar to what the moustache man did in Germany. Just different victims, different platforms and different fools to follow their narrative.

[baggieal]

The views of individuals should be welcome if they are not violent.

This person should be sacked immediately!

The president-elect of the Oxford Union has come under fire for appearing to celebrate the assassination of the American conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

George Abaraonye appeared to send a celebratory message to a WhatsApp group chat after the news emerged that Mr Kirk had been shot during an event at Utah Valley University.

Those views or protesters with placards saying refugees welcome - again that?s their views but they don?t offer solutions of who?s paying for it. Are these people setting up direct debits from their salaries to fund this if they feel that strongly? Did Gary Linekar donate large sums of his wealth?

I think Starmer is one of the worst PM?s in history but again nothing should ever turn violent. He won?t in a million years last longer than the next three years so that?s life. Good job I have never voted as they are all in it for their own gains.