o/t Southport mursers

So, it was another Islam motivated crime then?
Still waiting for Coopers definition of Islamophobia. An irrational fear of a religion?

Nothing irrational about it at all is there really?
This one certainly wasn't playing at it.

https://news.sky.com/story/southport...-home-13243980

Amazingly, the police still haven't labelled this a terrorist incident?
What was it then, a bad day at the office?
They really need to grow some balls and call it out, when it occurs and stop soft soaping Islam

NB, A murser is a murder from an Arsenal full back

So to sum up
Initially, we were told these poor girls had been killed by a Christian from Rwanda. Now we know that couldn’t be further from the truth. Axel Rudakubana, the 18-year-old accused of the brutal murder of three young schoolgirls and attempted murder of 10 others in Southport, is also now charged with attempting to create a biological weapon using the lethal toxin Ricin.
But it doesn’t stop there. Merseyside police have hit Rudakubana with a second new charge under the Terrorism Act for possessing an Al-Qaeda terror manual. This bombshell comes after three months in which authorities repeatedly said there was no evidence linking this horrific act to terrorism. Now, they’re telling us a very different story.
According to Chief Constable Serena Kennedy at a Merseyside police press conference, new evidence surfaced after officers searched Rudakubana’s home. Among the findings was a suspicious substance, sent to the Government’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down. The result? Ricin—the deadly poison. Thankfully, authorities confirm it wasn’t used in the Southport attack, with no traces found at the Hart Space venue where the horror unfolded.
Rudakubana now faces three counts of murder, 10 counts of attempted murder, and a charge of carrying a bladed weapon. Those he’s accused of killing—Bebe King, six, Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine—were at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class when they were attacked, alongside eight other children and two adults who were injured.
But it gets darker still. Merseyside police report that Rudakubana also had a PDF file titled Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: the Al-Qaeda training manual, a document that’s all too useful for someone looking to commit an act of terror. Chief Constable Kennedy confirmed this charge, explaining it under section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000.
The aftermath of this tragedy has already seen widespread unrest across towns and cities in England and Northern Ireland. And today’s revelations? They’re bound to stir more. Merseyside police are already on high alert, ready to deploy additional resources if necessary.
Chief Constable Kennedy sought to reassure the community, pledging justice for the families of Bebe, Elsie, and Alice, the 10 injured victims, and all who were present that day. “We are also committed to being open and transparent with our communities,” she said, though also mindful of not jeopardizing the ongoing legal process.
Despite these chilling new charges, Counter Terrorism police have yet to officially declare the Southport attack a terrorist incident. Rudakubana is set to appear before Westminster magistrates court tomorrow to face these new charges.

Farcical

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

So to sum up
Initially, we were told these poor girls had been killed by a Christian from Rwanda. Now we know that couldn’t be further from the truth. Axel Rudakubana, the 18-year-old accused of the brutal murder of three young schoolgirls and attempted murder of 10 others in Southport, is also now charged with attempting to create a biological weapon using the lethal toxin Ricin.
But it doesn’t stop there. Merseyside police have hit Rudakubana with a second new charge under the Terrorism Act for possessing an Al-Qaeda terror manual. This bombshell comes after three months in which authorities repeatedly said there was no evidence linking this horrific act to terrorism. Now, they’re telling us a very different story.
According to Chief Constable Serena Kennedy at a Merseyside police press conference, new evidence surfaced after officers searched Rudakubana’s home. Among the findings was a suspicious substance, sent to the Government’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down. The result? Ricin—the deadly poison. Thankfully, authorities confirm it wasn’t used in the Southport attack, with no traces found at the Hart Space venue where the horror unfolded.
Rudakubana now faces three counts of murder, 10 counts of attempted murder, and a charge of carrying a bladed weapon. Those he’s accused of killing—Bebe King, six, Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine—were at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class when they were attacked, alongside eight other children and two adults who were injured.
But it gets darker still. Merseyside police report that Rudakubana also had a PDF file titled Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: the Al-Qaeda training manual, a document that’s all too useful for someone looking to commit an act of terror. Chief Constable Kennedy confirmed this charge, explaining it under section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000.
The aftermath of this tragedy has already seen widespread unrest across towns and cities in England and Northern Ireland. And today’s revelations? They’re bound to stir more. Merseyside police are already on high alert, ready to deploy additional resources if necessary.
Chief Constable Kennedy sought to reassure the community, pledging justice for the families of Bebe, Elsie, and Alice, the 10 injured victims, and all who were present that day. “We are also committed to being open and transparent with our communities,” she said, though also mindful of not jeopardizing the ongoing legal process.
Despite these chilling new charges, Counter Terrorism police have yet to officially declare the Southport attack a terrorist incident. Rudakubana is set to appear before Westminster magistrates court tomorrow to face these new charges.

Farcical

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Tricky, this looks like plagiarism, if its a straight or almost straight lift from elsewhere, please remove it, and if you wish provide a context summary and a link

Also, and MA and others have made the point regarding the Mike Amesbury and Manchester Airport incidents, the police have due process to follow and things do 'emerge'.

In Rudakubana's case I don't see any proof that they've got anything 'wrong', a Muslim presenting as a Christian wouldn't be difficult although time will tell whether they rushed to judgement on that to avoid unrest, although of course a failed strategy if that was the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Tricky, this looks like plagiarism, if its a straight or almost straight lift from elsewhere, please remove it, and if you wish provide a context summary and a link

Also, and MA and others have made the point regarding the Mike Amesbury and Manchester Airport incidents, the police have due process to follow and things do 'emerge'.

In Rudakubana's case I don't see any proof that they've got anything 'wrong', a Muslim presenting as a Christian wouldn't be difficult although time will tell whether they rushed to judgement on that to avoid unrest, although of course a failed strategy if that was the case.

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Most of it was my words, if it offends you then please you remove it. This is a classic example of how the riots sprung up. Denial/ refusal to reveal anything/ deflection
It is Islamic terrorism and the government / Police decided to hush it up

Rudakubana was born in Cardiff and raised as a Christian. When the atrocity happened, that was what the police knew and that was what the police said.

Further investigation has led to these new charges.

It seems that it's people of a right wing persuasion who are now accusing the police of covering the Islamic connection up. Now, I'm not saying they didn't, as I do not know all of the facts, but, at this moment in time, it looks like they are releasing facts as and when they become known. At the time of the murders, it's very feasible they did not know that the lad had radicalised. In that case it was perfectly reasonable and normal for them to say the lad was born in Cardiff, which he was, and that he was raised as a Christian, which he was.

I would go as far as to say that, even if they suspected, at the time, that the lad "might have turned", emphasising his Cardiff and Christian background would have been a sensible move to attempt to curtail riots. Also, not reporting any Islamic relationship wouldn't tip off any Muslim "partners in crime" that they might also be investigating. Total transparency might have forewarned any collaborators and they could have gone to ground, destroyed evidence or even left the country, thereby making investigating them nigh on impossible.

Yes, the public should be told as much as possible up front but there will always be information that is withheld for 100% valid reasons. Those demanding all info as soon as it's known will cause police investigations into EVERY crime to be that much more difficult. There's an old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". It was, it is and it always will be.

IF, and it's a huge if, the police were aware from the very first minute that Rudakubana had turned to Islam and had been radicalised, as I explained above, their not publishing it at the outset was designed to stop the riots, which had already started, and to avoid making their investigations more difficult or even impossible.

IMO, anybody who doesn't understand that is wearing the ultimate blinkers.

Ergo, we were not told the killer was a Rwandan Christian. We were told he was a Welsh Christian.

Cardiff born makes him Welsh, so that was true.

His parents raised him as a Christian, that is also true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Rudakubana was born in Cardiff and raised as a Christian. When the atrocity happened, that was what the police knew and that was what the police said.

Further investigation has led to these new charges.

It seems that it's people of a right wing persuasion no who are now accusing the police of covering the Islamic connection up. Now, I'm not saying they didn't, as I do not know all of the facts, but, at this moment in time, it looks like they are releasing facts as and when they become known. At the time of the murders, it's very feasible they did not know that the lad had radicalised. In that case it was perfectly reasonable and normal for them to say the lad was born in Cardiff, which he was, and that he was raised as a Christian, which he was.

I would go as far as to say that, even if they suspected, at the time, that the lad "might have turned", emphasising his Cardiff and Christian background would have been a sensible move to attempt to curtail riots. Also, not reporting any Islamic relationship wouldn't tip off any Muslim "partners in crime" that they might also be investigating. Total transparency might have forewarned any collaborators and they could have gone to ground, destroyed evidence or even left the country, thereby making investigating them nigh on impossible.

Yes, the public should be told as much as possible up front but there will always be information that is withheld for 100% valid reasons. Those demanding all info as soon as it's known will cause police investigations into EVERY crime to be that much more difficult. There's an old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". It was, it is and it always will be.

IF, and it's a huge if, the police were aware from the very first minute that Rudakubana had turned to Islam and had been radicalised, as I explained above, their not publishing it at the outset was designed to stop the riots, which had already started, and to avoid making their investigations more difficult or even impossible.

IMO, anybody who doesn't understand that is wearing the ultimate blinkers.

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Agreed on all of that. Time may or may not tell if that’s the fact of it, my only criticism as a Christian is that the original announcement felt like the authorities dumping on the easy target - they could have reserved judgement on faith completely

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Tricky, this looks like plagiarism, if its a straight or almost straight lift from elsewhere, please remove it, and if you wish provide a context summary and a link

Also, and MA and others have made the point regarding the Mike Amesbury and Manchester Airport incidents, the police have due process to follow and things do 'emerge'.

In Rudakubana's case I don't see any proof that they've got anything 'wrong', a Muslim presenting as a Christian wouldn't be difficult although time will tell whether they rushed to judgement on that to avoid unrest, although of course a failed strategy if that was the case.

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Thank you for that, AF. I was in two minds whether to pm you about this post or just ignore it.

A forum is a place where views are exchanged and opinions contested, sometimes quite fiercely. The usual topics on here are football or politics and sometimes things can get quite feisty…something for which I am as much to ‘blame’ as anyone.

There is however, imo, a line which should not be crossed. The Southport incident and the murder of three innocent young girls was as tragic, upsetting and depraved an event as any I can ever remember. As regards the perpetrator…I am inclined to believe, from what little we know at the moment, that this is as much a case of an 18 year old with a serious mental health issues as anything else and should, as you suggest, be left well alone until all the appropriate investigation has taken place.

Either way I don’t believe it’s a matter that anyone should be seeking to make political capital out of. Most of us will recognise that it’s still too raw and painful for all concerned and should be treated accordingly and placed ‘out of bounds’ in terms of future short term forum discussion.

And even though the guy may have been radicalised, I'm not sure this attack was necessarily related as there hasn't been the usual "boasting" or claiming of responsibility that tends to accompany such. It's an odd one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Rudakubana was born in Cardiff and raised as a Christian. When the atrocity happened, that was what the police knew and that was what the police said.

Further investigation has led to these new charges.

It seems that it's people of a right wing persuasion who are now accusing the police of covering the Islamic connection up. Now, I'm not saying they didn't, as I do not know all of the facts, but, at this moment in time, it looks like they are releasing facts as and when they become known. At the time of the murders, it's very feasible they did not know that the lad had radicalised. In that case it was perfectly reasonable and normal for them to say the lad was born in Cardiff, which he was, and that he was raised as a Christian, which he was.

I would go as far as to say that, even if they suspected, at the time, that the lad "might have turned", emphasising his Cardiff and Christian background would have been a sensible move to attempt to curtail riots. Also, not reporting any Islamic relationship wouldn't tip off any Muslim "partners in crime" that they might also be investigating. Total transparency might have forewarned any collaborators and they could have gone to ground, destroyed evidence or even left the country, thereby making investigating them nigh on impossible.

Yes, the public should be told as much as possible up front but there will always be information that is withheld for 100% valid reasons. Those demanding all info as soon as it's known will cause police investigations into EVERY crime to be that much more difficult. There's an old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". It was, it is and it always will be.

IF, and it's a huge if, the police were aware from the very first minute that Rudakubana had turned to Islam and had been radicalised, as I explained above, their not publishing it at the outset was designed to stop the riots, which had already started, and to avoid making their investigations more difficult or even impossible.

IMO, anybody who doesn't understand that is wearing the ultimate blinkers.

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Very good post MA. I suppose it has tempered me a bit. I am still in the IF brigade, because they denied it was a terror act and still do.
It smacks of being scared of offending a certain religion. It isn't just here, it happens in Europe as well.
The Germans did everything they could to cover up/ deny the awful crimes in Cologne that new years eve. Even down to trying to get those women to not press charges and drop their claims. Islam and radical Islam are not far apart, and to hide crimes committed by it is just plain wrong.

So, back to the riots. They were ill informed as to the culprits origins. Ironically coming from Pakistan and channel3now.
Yet now it seems, that the rioters weren't that far wrong in their anger, that they have enough of all the crimes being committed in the name of Islam. Lets be honest here, they are vile and far to frequent in their ferocity and nastyness.

So I'll say again, what is Islamophobia?