BOJO. The end.

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Originally Posted by army88

We are past all that ask the public 59 because truthfully and you know this to be true they don’t care what we think,

I’m astonished that even after all the underhand dealings , lies and rigmarole that’s gone on you think that this is the way forward.

To be honest when May went the first time to Brussels if she’d come back and said cards on the table they won’t deal they are only prepared to do this this and this if we commit to this so I’m asking you the public , I think it would have maybe been a logical and clever way of doing things being honest it would probably have kept her in the job.

However history tells us that they lie and cheat and try to better their own personal circumstances without a care for the people’s views and you want to trust them further again.

They want clearing out top to bottom and a new system and personnel introducing to give the country a fighting chance going forwards.

I’ve said I’d like a deal to be done on trade etc but we have nothing left to bargain with imo, we have weakened and weakened our position so much that they think they hold all the cards again,

They have a shock coming to them I think with a domino effect imminently after it.

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Army, our politicians have failed to sort it out so why do you think they will in the future?

Parliament has ruled out no deal but Boris says this might happen. But he won't explain how.

So Boris is trying to get a deal. Essentially the same as Theresa's but with no Irish backstop. Then he has to get it through Parliament.
We are going round and round in circles by leaving it to the politicians.

Would a new Government work? In my opinion there will still be no party with a majority after a general election, so probably no agreement in Parliament.

So how the hell do we move on?

Asking the people is the only way IMO.

We have already asked the people.

Parliament are denying the will of the people.

Therefore: Simples - it's People versus Parliament.

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

We have already asked the people.

Parliament are denying the will of the people.

Therefore: Simples - it's People versus Parliament.

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If that is true BT then Labour are the main culprits.

Most Tories voted for the deal and to leave.
Most Labour voted against the deal.

The Lib Dems and SNP also mainly voted against the deal but by far the biggest number against was Labour.

Labour are the party who enabled making leaving with no deal illegal too. (The "Surrender" Bill)

And if Labour win the election they will give us a second referendum.

I must ask you again BT, are you in the right party?

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Originally Posted by 1959_60

If that is true BT then Labour are the main culprits.

Most Tories voted for the deal and to leave.
Most Labour voted against the deal.

The Lib Dems and SNP also mainly voted against the deal but by far the biggest number against was Labour.

Labour are the party who enabled making leaving with no deal illegal too. (The "Surrender" Bill)

And if Labour win the election they will give us a second referendum.

I must ask you again BT, are you in the right party?

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You are talking bollox again 1959_60. 60% of CLP's voted to LEAVE. FACT.

I tried to explain it to YOU again yesterday, but you just refuse to listen.

The Labour party will not leave without a deal. I have said a million times I am just one voice, but I can tell you there are a lot who share my opinion within the Labour party - LEAVE MEANS LEAVE. 30 DAYS & COUNTING!

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Originally Posted by 1959_60

Army, our politicians have failed to sort it out so why do you think they will in the future?

Parliament has ruled out no deal but Boris says this might happen. But he won't explain how.

So Boris is trying to get a deal. Essentially the same as Theresa's but with no Irish backstop. Then he has to get it through Parliament.
We are going round and round in circles by leaving it to the politicians.

Would a new Government work? In my opinion there will still be no party with a majority after a general election, so probably no agreement in Parliament.

So how the hell do we move on?

Asking the people is the only way IMO.

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But the people have already voted 59 and they have chosen to ignore that for the last 3 years by anyway and means that they can.

I’m asking you what makes you think a vote will help when they blatantly refuse to do anything that remotely looks like delivering Brexit.
Brainwashed springs to mind for many people in this country they must be asking for another vote and denying the first result.

I really do believe that if it doesn’t get sorted out in October when it comes to a vote on anything ( general election ) it will be the worst turn out ever as the public have simply lost faith in all of them.

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

You are talking bollox again 1959_60. 60% of CLP's voted to LEAVE. FACT.

I tried to explain it to YOU again yesterday, but you just refuse to listen.

The Labour party will not leave without a deal. I have said a million times I am just one voice, but I can tell you there are a lot who share my opinion within the Labour party - LEAVE MEANS LEAVE. 30 DAYS & COUNTING!

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I think you misunderstand me BT.

Theresa lost the vote to leave with a deal by 344-286.

Those who voted for it were Tories 277, Labour 5, Ind 9

Those who voted against Labour 234, Tory 34, SNP 34, Lib dem 11, Others 31

What i was saying is that the Tories can't be blamed for losing the vote. If the public are complaining about not leaving then Labour are the ones that could have made it happen. 234 Labour MP's voted against the deal, 34 Tories.
Added to the fact that Labour have implemented the "Surrender Deal" so that we can't leave without a deal....if you were a neutral who would YOU blame BT?

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Originally Posted by 1959_60

Nigel Farage made it clear when he thought that remain had won the referendum that the fight would continue. The leavers would have continued to campaign to leave the EU and I suggest that you would have supported his campaign? well, plenty would have done including a lot of Tories. And I wouldn't have had a problem with that.
You will say, "but at least we would have remained - you would have got what you voted for" and I honestly understand your frustration.

But the only way we could leave quickly was via a no deal. And no one, well, very few, thought this was a good idea.
So we had to get a deal. It soon became apparent that the deal which Boris and Nigel had promised us was not available.
Theresa got a deal but it had one point that caused it to fail in Parliament - the Irish border issue. I remember you saying that you would rather remain than accept the deal.
And you weren't alone. Would you accept Theresa's deal if the backstop was taken out because this is what Boris is trying to do? Some would and some wouldn't.
Wouldn't it be a good idea if the public were asked what they thought? At least we would all know exactly what we would get this time.

I remember when you changed your tune and told us "I have come to the conclusion that we should just leave and if it means throwing Ireland under a bus then so be it"
That is your opinion Sinkov but please don't claim to speak for the majority of the country when you say that.

I am not insulting your intelligence or patronising you but if the Lib Dems announce in a manifesto that if we are elected we will revoke article 50 then simply don't vote for us. We'll all decide who to vote for by inspecting the parties manifesto's and reaching our own conclusions. But to claim that the Lib Dems are being undemocratic for telling us quite openly what their policies are doesn't make any sense.
Labour tell us they would abolish private schools. You may disagree with them but they are not being undemocratic.

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I have no problem 59 if the LibDems want to fight an election on a manifesto pledge to rejoin the EU, but to declare the result of the referendum null and void because they think it might damage the economy is, as I have said before, arrogant, patronising and an extremely dangerous road to go down. I'm trying to work out just what the LibDems current political philosophy is, or at least what it reminds me of, and the word that keeps coming to mind is fascist.

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Originally Posted by sinkov

I have no problem 59 if the LibDems want to fight an election on a manifesto pledge to rejoin the EU, but to declare the result of the referendum null and void because they think it might damage the economy is, as I have said before, arrogant, patronising and an extremely dangerous road to go down. I'm trying to work out just what the LibDems current political philosophy is, or at least what it reminds me of, and the word that keeps coming to mind is fascist.

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Yes. it's quite funny really how the people who tell you they are inclusive and liberal minded have a big problem with votes that don't go their way!! Never mind the answer is tried and tested. just get people to vote again until you get the answer you want. Progressive=Fascist.

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Originally Posted by 1959_60

I think you misunderstand me BT.

Theresa lost the vote to leave with a deal by 344-286.

Those who voted for it were Tories 277, Labour 5, Ind 9

Those who voted against Labour 234, Tory 34, SNP 34, Lib dem 11, Others 31

What i was saying is that the Tories can't be blamed for losing the vote. If the public are complaining about not leaving then Labour are the ones that could have made it happen. 234 Labour MP's voted against the deal, 34 Tories.
Added to the fact that Labour have implemented the "Surrender Deal" so that we can't leave without a deal....if you were a neutral who would YOU blame BT?

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FFS 1959_60. You are simply cementing my assertion that it is now "People versus Parliament". The dumb clusterphuck of Labour MP's who will not represent their constituencies will should be suspended and replaced with MP's who will respect the wishes of their CLP.

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

FFS 1959_60. You are simply cementing my assertion that it is now "People versus Parliament". The dumb clusterphuck of Labour MP's who will not represent their constituencies will should be suspended and replaced with MP's who will respect the wishes of their CLP.

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Wow!
According to your figures (60% of CLP's voted leave) then that would be a monumental cull.

I don't know about the CLP's but here is some info about how people voted in the referendum. Labour voters backed remain by 65% to 35%.