League 1 it is then

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Originally Posted by Ramshank72

"Wind your neck in" sonny, ramAnag doesn't understand something so we all have to subject ourselves to his protest.

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My ‘protest’, Ramshank? Where on earth have I protested? I’ve raised questions about the role of Quantuma and extended it to the fees charged by accountants in general. You don’t have to ‘subject’ yourself to anything at all, but you could at least have something to offer rather than just having a ‘pop’ at me.

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Accountants rA? Well there are many different versions but essentially they understand the finer points of financial management ensuring that businesses act legally, and operate on a financially viable basis.

The job of the administrators is complex, they ahve to keep the club running, which they have done whilst negotiating with creditors, or at lest the preferred creditors to get them to accept a figure. Then they have to check each bid made to ensure the bidder has funds, is operating legally, etc. etc. Its highly specialised and with a football club even more so.

As for their costs well presumably more than one firm with the required expertise were asked for their quotes for the work before these lot were appointed. Ye sit seems a lot, but as GP has explained, in terms of the overall value of the transaction its really small beer and compared to say the cost of signing and paying one player its minimal.

If they secure a takeover and the club survives to play in League 1 with no further pts deduction then. I'd say it was also good value.

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Well that at least is the most polite and intelligible defence of the administrators and accountants generally.
I do still have to ASK though (NOT ‘protest’ or think I know best)...what were the accountants doing when DCFC went tits up and ran up their astronomical debts to HMRC amongst others...and would we not be better off with a more straightforward and transparent financial system making understanding the ‘finer points’/loopholes/legality less necessary?

As I said earlier...we currently seem to be in the same position, in terms of negotiations, as we were just before Christmas, and yet we simultaneously seem to be a lot worse off with a weaker ‘squad’ and relegation guaranteed. Does that represent good value on the part of the administrators?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

2. This isn’t meant to be personal but...other than answering with ‘that’s the way it is’ again...what is it you (accountants) actually do, what special skills do you actually have that can possibly justify charging £325-£350 per hour?

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That's such a silly question, and my answer remains that 'we' (including quantuma) provide a service at whatever pay rate the market will stand. You don't actually want to to know the detail really because if you don't understand the concept of supply and demand you won't understand 90% of accounting concepts and principles.
Note that it was me that used the word demeaning and it was carefully chosen. We've had many disagreements over time but throughout that I've never written anything that demeans your profession, because I don't understand it sufficiently. I think you should look back at post 62 and reflect on that

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I do still have to ASK ...what were the accountants doing when DCFC went tits up and ran up their astronomical debts to HMRC amongst others

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That's a different and more pertinent question - to which there's a range of possible answers. Maybe they good technically but to weak as people to 'speak truth to power' as MM and other cronies made reckless decisions. Maybe they were complicit in the deception and hoped it would 'all come good in the end'. Maybe they were clever dicks who thought what they were doing was 'within the rules (/law). Some bits of that make them more complicit in the disaster than others, and going back to the earlier point, their market rate may well plummet as a result. My route through the finance part of my time in business seldom actually included accounts management but there was one golden rule i would go toe to toe with anyone on no matter how senior/scary: 'Don't **** with HMRC' (or their predecessors). It appears Derby's financial custodians decided they could. And they were wrong

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

That's such a silly question, and my answer remains that 'we' (including quantuma) provide a service at whatever pay rate the market will stand. You don't actually want to to know the detail really because if you don't understand the concept of supply and demand you won't understand 90% of accounting concepts and principles.
Note that it was me that used the word demeaning and it was carefully chosen. We've had many disagreements over time but throughout that I've never written anything that demeans your profession, because I don't understand it sufficiently. I think you should look back at post 62 and reflect on that

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That’s a fair point, reasonably made, AF and if you thought I was being demeaning towards your profession by confusing it with my own ability to balance my own (personal and professional) budgets I apologise.
As regards my own profession...you may have ‘never written anything that demeans (my) profession because (you) don’t understand it sufficiently’ and I appreciate that...but there are plenty on here who have.

As regards the concept of ‘supply and demand’. My point remains that, during the last two years of the pandemic and indeed now as the NHS tries to play ‘catch up’ on cases that have taken a back seat as a result of Covid...there is a shortage of nurses and doctors who are currently in great demand.
I’m sure there are a few surgeons and specialists who receive similar salaries to those accountants/Quantuma employees referred to by GP, but I have to ask...how is it that the laws of ‘supply and demand’ can be applied to those working in the world of finance but not elsewhere where there are shortages...for nurses, doctors, lorry drivers, farmers and bin men etc?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I have to ask...how is it that the laws of ‘supply and demand’ can be applied to those working in the world of finance but not elsewhere where there are shortages...for nurses, doctors, lorry drivers, farmers and bin men etc?

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Give an example and I’ll try to offer an explanation

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Ay up Rev, DCFCA? when we go on a decent run, he's nowhere to be seen. Lose a game and he's all over the forum slagging off all and sundry. Never one to hold back on dodgy comments either. Believes facts only spoil a good rant.

As for your lot, I told you you'd be safe and it's looking like I was right.

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Well I would have agreed with you a few weeks back MA but with Burnley taking 7pts out of a possible 9pts we are now back in the relegation mix.

Will be gutted if we do go down but hey ho much worse things happening in the world.

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Originally Posted by Rev72

Well I would have agreed with you a few weeks back MA but with Burnley taking 7pts out of a possible 9pts we are now back in the relegation mix.

Will be gutted if we do go down but hey ho much worse things happening in the world.

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Burnley might be on the up but I'm sure Frank's Toffees will do their level best to keep you safe ;)

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Give an example and I’ll try to offer an explanation

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I thought I had. You and GP seem to be defending the £350 per hour charged by Quantuma’s accountants on the basis of ‘supply and demand’.
Doctors, nurses, lorry drivers are, for obvious reasons, currently in high demand and there seems to be a shortage of these essential workers but a reluctance to provide the sort of hourly rate that would increase the supply.
I’m not knocking accountants...and I’m not suggesting that anyone should be paid £350 per hour, but I am saying that I think there is something wrong when accountants can justify being paid approaching twenty times more than a nurses average hourly rate, especially if the performance of accountants at Derby County over recent times is in any way indicative.

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Originally Posted by Rev72

Well I would have agreed with you a few weeks back MA but with Burnley taking 7pts out of a possible 9pts we are now back in the relegation mix.

Will be gutted if we do go down but hey ho much worse things happening in the world.

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Rev, this might seem strange coming from someone who grew up on the Lancashire side of the Pennines before moving to Derby many years ago and has thus known only rivalry with Leeds...but I think the days of ‘dirty Leeds’ have gone and, after the cynicism on show from Lampard’s Everton yesterday, I honestly think that your lot are the most deserving to stay up.