O/T Racism- yes kow

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

The saddest thing about all this is, imo, the excitable urgency that certain posters have shown to condemn Azeem Rafiq rather than consider the issues that were raised last Tuesday.
Such was Tricky’s delight that his fingers got all jumbled up leaving me at a loss as to what the actual title of the thread is meant to be.
Azeem Rafiq is probably hugely embarrassed by having been exposed as having used racist terminology himself...and rightly so.
As MA says...many of us, in some former ‘incarnation’, will have said or done things that we now struggle to justify or ‘own’.
Lenny Henry learned a large part of his ‘trade’ with the ‘Black and White Minstrels’ for goodness sake.
What isn’t acceptable however is for Azeem Rafiq’s apparent hypocrisy/embarrassment to cloud the very real issue of institutionalised racism in cricket or any other sport.
We don’t need a ‘witch hunt’ but the issues he raised still need addressing and the fact that an example of his own flawed behaviour has since emerged makes no difference whatsoever to the issues that need investigating.

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never mind my "delight " as you call it.
My post was for me the hilarity of showing up yet more hypocrisy from mud slinging.
I fully concur and have already said it is not acceptable.
But the press did their usual thing, of Saint hood for the victim, then it goes tits up.
But we see this all over the place, even through politics. I know you hate me saying RA, but how many times have Abbott/Lammy been caught out saying racist things, whilst screaming racist at someone else?

I've been a victim of racist abuse myself, but no one seemed to care when I said something about it.

And that's the narrative in this country now. Instead of dealing with the issue from an equality/level playing field. We have pampering on one side, and hush hush on the other,

Need an example?

I give you Naz Shah. This is the woman who has been screaming about the cricket racism from Bradford. Yet it is also the same woman, who says white *** grooming girls, should keep quiet for the good of diversity.

You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

You are are missing OUR collective point, that (to put it in simple terms) depite the 'crime' being the same whoever the perp and whoever the victim, the punishment currently is not the same. Geoff's post sums it up calmly and fairly IMO

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Not sure I’m missing anyone’s point, Andy. I’ve acknowledged Azeem Rafiq’s ‘hypocrisy and embarrassment’ and I see no difference in the offence caused by his words and those of Ollie Robinson, but you can’t possibly ‘punish’ someone at the end of their career in the same way as someone (Robinson) who was just beginning their international career.
The point remains though that we cannot allow subsequent developments to ‘cloud’ the wrongdoing at Yorkshire and elsewhere.
As Ramshank has sensibly suggested, ‘it’s about making things better that should be the focus’. I agree with that.

Interesting use of the capitalised ‘OUR’ in your post.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

never mind my "delight " as you call it.
My post was for me the hilarity of showing up yet more hypocrisy from mud slinging.
I fully concur and have already said it is not acceptable.
But the press did their usual thing, of Saint hood for the victim, then it goes tits up.
But we see this all over the place, even through politics. I know you hate me saying RA, but how many times have Abbott/Lammy been caught out saying racist things, whilst screaming racist at someone else?

I've been a victim of racist abuse myself, but no one seemed to care when I said something about it.

And that's the narrative in this country now. Instead of dealing with the issue from an equality/level playing field. We have pampering on one side, and hush hush on the other,

Need an example?

I give you Naz Shah. This is the woman who has been screaming about the cricket racism from Bradford. Yet it is also the same woman, who says white *** grooming girls, should keep quiet for the good of diversity.

You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

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Oh do change the record Tricky. Every time racism rears its ugly head on here you bang on and on about ‘Abbott and Lammy’, people ‘screaming’ racism, how you’ve been ‘a victim of racist abuse’ and your favourite...grooming gangs.

That’s your agenda as everyone on here knows. If someone speaks up in favour of BLM you’ll immediately find fault and seek out some negative aspect of that particular campaign. It’s what you do.

‘Can’t have it both ways’...how am I trying to do that? I’m wholly opposed to all forms of racism and, probably unlike you, have been professionally involved in action against ‘grooming gangs’. There are faults on both sides, I accept that, but generally speaking white people do not even begin to understand what it is like to be the victim of institutionalised racism and it is no coincidence that every single time the issue of racism is raised on this forum you, and one or two others, seek to undermine anyone who speaks out against it.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Not sure I’m missing anyone’s point, Andy. I’ve acknowledged Azeem Rafiq’s ‘hypocrisy and embarrassment’ and I see no difference in the offence caused by his words and those of Ollie Robinson, but you can’t possibly ‘punish’ someone at the end of their career in the same way as someone (Robinson) who was just beginning their international career.
The point remains though that we cannot allow subsequent developments to ‘cloud’ the wrongdoing at Yorkshire and elsewhere.
As Ramshank has sensibly suggested, ‘it’s about making things better that should be the focus’. I agree with that.

Interesting use of the capitalised ‘OUR’ in your post.

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Again you miss the point and our opinion (yes I will use the word our, it appears to be a commonly held opinion/observation here) is that transgressions in one direction earn an uneven punishment in the media. Case in point as recently as today -
lunchtime news, Azeem Raziq's (first) misdemeanour (and lets bear in mind he has taken a moral stance on such misdemeanour) earned 3 seconds of commentary, Alex Hales (a relative nobody) earned 28 seconds and the need for a video apology. Same disparity this evening, and that despite Raziq being outed on another racist post online. Happens a lot

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Again you miss the point and our opinion (yes I will use the word our, it appears to be a commonly held opinion/observation here) is that transgressions in one direction earn an uneven punishment in the media. Case in point as recently as today -
lunchtime news, Azeem Raziq's (first) misdemeanour (and lets bear in mind he has taken a moral stance on such misdemeanour) earned 3 seconds of commentary, Alex Hales (a relative nobody) earned 28 seconds and the need for a video apology. Same disparity this evening, and that despite Raziq being outed on another racist post online. Happens a lot

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‘A commonly held opinion/observation here’. Really? Get over yourself...it’s a commonly held opinion held by you, Tricky and GP...and Alex Hales is hardly a ‘relative nobody’...he’s a former England international opening batsman, in all three forms of the game, who would probably still be in that role had it not been for his previous assorted misdemeanours.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Oh do change the record Tricky. Every time racism rears its ugly head on here you bang on and on about ‘Abbott and Lammy’, people ‘screaming’ racism, how you’ve been ‘a victim of racist abuse’ and your favourite...grooming gangs.

That’s your agenda as everyone on here knows. If someone speaks up in favour of BLM you’ll immediately find fault and seek out some negative aspect of that particular campaign. It’s what you do.

‘Can’t have it both ways’...how am I trying to do that? I’m wholly opposed to all forms of racism and, probably unlike you, have been professionally involved in action against ‘grooming gangs’. There are faults on both sides, I accept that, but generally speaking white people do not even begin to understand what it is like to be the victim of institutionalised racism and it is no coincidence that every single time the issue of racism is raised on this forum you, and one or two others, seek to undermine anyone who speaks out against it.

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And you read that in exactly as I knew you would.

Yes I challenged it and so I have to "change the record"

I already said, none of it is acceptable, but as the topic of the post said- The hypocrisy stinks as well.
He spoke out against it, yet was a willing particupant when it suited.
He also may I add, went back to the same club with this terrible racism, after a lengthy absense.
So I will call it out when ever I see it.
You see, you swept my abuse under the carpet. Pretty much as the management did. It doesn't count does it, this way.

Good for you in confronting grooming gangs, so when Naz Shah, says hush, is that acceptable?

Let me put it in clear for you, as you seem to be missing it.

ALL FORMS OF RACISM ARE WRONG.
But it isn't one way. There are those in this country who see it that way. Like it or not, the grooming gamg scandals were in fear of that bias.

Patronise me all you want, but that's the truth of it.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

And you read that in exactly as I knew you would.

Yes I challenged it and so I have to "change the record"

I already said, none of it is acceptable, but as the topic of the post said- The hypocrisy stinks as well.
He spoke out against it, yet was a willing particupant when it suited.
He also may I add, went back to the same club with this terrible racism, after a lengthy absense.
So I will call it out when ever I see it.
You see, you swept my abuse under the carpet. Pretty much as the management did. It doesn't count does it, this way.

Good for you in confronting grooming gangs, so when Naz Shah, says hush, is that acceptable?

Let me put it in clear for you, as you seem to be missing it.

ALL FORMS OF RACISM ARE WRONG.
But it isn't one way. There are those in this country who see it that way. Like it or not, the grooming gamg scandals were in fear of that bias.

Patronise me all you want, but that's the truth of it.

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No...you have to ‘change the record’ because you repeatedly bring up the issue and then tell us the same old sob stories.

You keep saying ‘All forms of Racism are wrong’ but the chip on your shoulder is so huge that I certainly doubt your sincerity.

Someone goes back to work in an environment where they are unhappy. Well that’s never happened anywhere else has it? Needs must.

No...what Naz Shah said wasn’t acceptable, however neither was the issue of ‘grooming gangs’ as simple, or as one sided, as you’d like to make out.

I don’t believe I have ‘patronised’ you...but I do have much better things to do tonight than go over the same old ground...again.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

No...you have to ‘change the record’ because you repeatedly bring up the issue and then tell us the same old sob stories.

You keep saying ‘All forms of Racism are wrong’ but the chip on your shoulder is so huge that I certainly doubt your sincerity.

Someone goes back to work in an environment where they are unhappy. Well that’s never happened anywhere else has it? Needs must.

No...what Naz Shah said wasn’t acceptable, however neither was the issue of ‘grooming gangs’ as simple, or as one sided, as you’d like to make out.

I don’t believe I have ‘patronised’ you...but I do have much better things to do tonight than go over the same old ground...again.

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Same old ground, that you wish to avoid conflicting with your interpretation.

You see, my sob story justifys my point. That is exactly what happens when it comes in reverse. You dismiss that, when it is very relevent to tackling racism.

You see, Rafiq, quotes the P word as his abuse. OK I get that, and it is wrong. The press are up in arms/ the Politicians want action etc. OK that's good.

But like my sob story.
We had some of the Burger boys for customers. (look that particular nasty bunch up)

When addressing myself, it was always cracker/peckerhead/safari as a means of communication.
Now seeing as we had to call them MR......./ or their first name if they allowed.
I complained to a director. It was hushed up sharpish, in case the press got hold of it.

Now I have a thick skin, but love a level playing field. I'd have been happy to play their game, but knew reprisals meant the sack/ prosecution/vilification from the media if reported.

Until racism is accepted as applying to all, you'll never stop it.
Apologies if my sob story, has reduced your liberal soul to tears.

TTR I get CRACKER, it's a derogatory slur used against poor, white, rural whites in the Southern United States That's a racist term.

Peckerhead? I don't see that as racist. It refers to an aggressive, objectionable person.

A Safari is a term coined by a Narrabundah College Student in 2009. It is generally expressed in times of chaos, inappropriateness, and otherwise uncomfortable situations.
There are a few types of Safaris:
1) A normal Safari (ie chaos)
2) A mental Safari (when someone acts stupidly)
3) An Anal Safari (reffering to a homo***ual)
Which of the 3 terms was the meaning directed at you?

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

TTR I get CRACKER, it's a derogatory slur used against poor, white, rural whites in the Southern United States That's a racist term.

Peckerhead? I don't see that as racist. It refers to an aggressive, objectionable person.

A Safari is a term coined by a Narrabundah College Student in 2009. It is generally expressed in times of chaos, inappropriateness, and otherwise uncomfortable situations.
There are a few types of Safaris:
1) A normal Safari (ie chaos)
2) A mental Safari (when someone acts stupidly)
3) An Anal Safari (reffering to a homo***ual)
Which of the 3 terms was the meaning directed at you?

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I was wondering much the same thing, MA.

Either way Tricky...if you CHOOSE to work with very difficult people you’re going to encounter some sh1t along the way. The examples you’ve provided are hardly anything beyond a bit of name calling...in stressful occupations when you’re dealing with frustrated, angry and resentful people that’s about par for the course in my experience. Maybe this ‘thick skin’ of yours isn’t quite as protective as you would have us all believe.