OT - UKIP wiped out in local elections

Its not often I find myself agreeing with a Notts Spinney fan such as you Romanus, but this is one. Those last two parahraphs sum up my philosophy too. I think we need to temper it slightly with compassion and support towards those unable to fend for themselves, but not those unwilling.

If proper funding had been put into the exucation system years ago we should long term have been able to save on support payments, but that is a huge juggernaut to turn round now.

One huge flaw in the model tbough is that people are rapidly becoming irrelevant and how the soft capitalist approach can deal with the resultant social chaos of 50% enforced redundancy is beyond my comprehension.

Fortunately I will be dead before that really bites but the generation of 2050 will have a huge issue to deal with and we need to start to plan for it now (if not before!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Romanis

No I'm not a capitalist. I'm a liberal conservative.
But since now you've disingenuously disavowed the UKLP, you only got 1 choice. Conservative.

Welcome on board son.

---

Unfortunately Romanis, I have to agree. But I don't vote out of blind loyalty.
Corbyns followers do that, no matter how many howlers come out of his or cronies mouths.

From the SNP and the ridiculous Libs, what hope is there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roger_ramjet

Its not often I find myself agreeing with a Notts Spinney fan such as you Romanus, but this is one. Those last two parahraphs sum up my philosophy too. I think we need to temper it slightly with compassion and support towards those unable to fend for themselves, but not those unwilling.

If proper funding had been put into the exucation system years ago we should long term have been able to save on support payments, but that is a huge juggernaut to turn round now.

One huge flaw in the model tbough is that people are rapidly becoming irrelevant and how the soft capitalist approach can deal with the resultant social chaos of 50% enforced redundancy is beyond my comprehension.

Fortunately I will be dead before that really bites but the generation of 2050 will have a huge issue to deal with and we need to start to plan for it now (if not before!)

---

There are several huge flaws in a free market model and plenty of historical evidence that this is the case and that government intervention and support is crucial to a market operating successfully. Bloody hell the 2008 financial crash happened precisely because there was too little regulation!!

You can't have it both ways, argue that the free market works and then blame the most right of centre labour government there has been for the economic chaos that followed. IF there had not been state intervention in the financial system then there would have been a financial disaster not seen since the 30's.

Your second premise is again not backed up by evidence, people are not becoming irrelevant, the type of jobs change thats true but all the research shows that we are a long long way from technology taking over all jobs.

Green?

Actually I want to vote SNP but there is no candidate. Get rid of the ungrateful whingeing Scotch once and for all. See how they get on in isolation without subsidies from the rest of the UK and, for that matter, Europe

Singapore is a good model for a city. But not for a country with tens of millions.
Once you get it depend on the state for everything then it's like putting all your eggs in 1 basket.
In the end you get a paternalistic govt which puts remaining in power and concentrating on their core.
If they screw up it's very hard to undo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Romanis

Singapore is a good model for a city. But not for a country with tens of millions.
Once you get it depend on the state for everything then it's like putting all your eggs in 1 basket.
In the end you get a paternalistic govt which puts remaining in power and concentrating on their core.
If they screw up it's very hard to undo.

---

But we dont depend upon the state in this country for everything, thats not what i said, you were arguing for a simple model in which each gets what he or she earns, but the fact is markets dont work that way, whether a government works on remaining in power or not is a political consideration, but not an economic one, the truth is markets left to themselves simply dont work,markets dont pay for stuff like education, health (one only has to look at the US to see that), infrastructure, research etc etc the list is endless.

Damn this phone has a life of its own. Auto correct sentences.
Whatever it is swale looking at history. Labour govts usually start off well only to screw things up down the line.
McDonald, Atlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown.
The Tories are not God's gift but I think most Britons down the years find them a safer pair of hands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swaledale

But we dont depend upon the state in this country for everything, thats not what i said, you were arguing for a simple model in which each gets what he or she earns, but the fact is markets dont work that way, whether a government works on remaining in power or not is a political consideration, but not an economic one, the truth is markets left to themselves simply dont work,markets dont pay for stuff like education, health (one only has to look at the US to see that), infrastructure, research etc etc the list is endless.

---

Agreed. The answer lies in between. What we have are 2 opposites. In the case of Labour now, an extreme.
But politics will never let us have a more centrist model.

I haven't blamed anyone for the 2008 crash. Lack of regulation allowed it to happen but it was probably just bad luck that it happened on Brown' watch as opposed to any other Chancellor. His response was measured and by and large contributed to stabilising the global sinking ship within a year, but opportunities were missed in reforming personal banking as part of the bail out: eg I think it should have been divested from more esoteric banking activities and nationalised. State control can coexist with capitalism in certain sectors.

As for humans becoming redundant, we will have to agree to disagree. Its a personal view, perhaps not backed up with the evisence you seek but "I have done all the research and looked at the information to form my conclusion" - ie its my guess!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Romanis

Damn this phone has a life of its own. Auto correct sentences.
Whatever it is swale looking at history. Labour govts usually start off well only to screw things up down the line.
McDonald, Atlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown.
The Tories are not God's gift but I think most Britons down the years find them a safer pair of hands.

---

Mm not sure thats entirely true, the last labour government, which was to the right of Thatcher in many wasy didn't screw things up, the financial crash did that, plus browns vacillating over whether to call an election when he would ahve won, but thats a political judgement, which to be fair he wasn't very good at.

Lets not forget that the deregulation of the financial markets was started by the conservatives and continued under labour with nary a squeak of opposition from the Tory's at the time!

Like wise. the disastrous public private finance initiatives which have left schools and hospitals with high debt, whilst the private sector walks away with the profits and no risk, were a Tory invention and continued by labour.

I agree that a mixed economy with a centrist approach that encourages entreprenurial effort is whats required, but the worst exceses of the market have to be controlled.