O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

We accept there will be vaccine deaths as a cost benefit, but this vaccine has now apparently killed more people than all other vaccines combined. Vaccine injuries must be off the scale. Facebook were banning all discussion of injuries, Eric Clapton for example was vilified for coming out about what happened to him. People are being made to feel ashamed and then silenced if they have been affected.
In the 1970s a flu vaccine programme was halted for a tiny proportion of deaths compared to what we see now. And with this one, people are apparently being counted as unvaccinated if they die within two weeks of the first shot.

Why are they censoring the safety documents for 75 years?

Why are they mandating this vaccine, for a virus that the vast majority have practically zero chance of dying from, whilst vaccines for far more deadly diseases are not?

Why is this vaccine so special that the companies producing it are not liable for deaths and permanent damage?

Why are we giving this to people at no risk, including children, when it doesn't even prevent transmission?

This is the first vaccine in history in which its failure to work is being blamed on those who do not take it.

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Why are there so many idiots ?

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Originally Posted by cher1

I notice you don't disagree with the premise in my previous post, so that's a positive.

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Not sure if this was for me and what it refers to, but assuming you mean Malone. You wouldn't claim any of the people who worked on Concorde invented the aeroplane. As Malone was working on this in the 1980s he's one of the pioneers at least. Who gets to judge if a colleague of his had a greater role? Obviously he will have a very deep knowledge of what these vaccines do and as he says, he took the vaccine - being elderly and at risk - but he is absolutely against giving them to children.

As I said, but needs repeating, anybody who speaks out will be smeared and then immediately dismissed as anti-vaxxer by people with zero understanding, even if the whistle blower has spent their entire career working on and promoting vaccines - Then you don't have to listen to them. History may prove to be more kind to these people.

Seeing as this is an experiment, and you'd be playing dumb to pretend otherwise, we have to at least keep an open mind. You can hope it works out for the good, but you won't know until you have the results. Unless you're burying your head in the sand the signs are now not looking good.

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Originally Posted by BanjoPie

Why are there so many idiots ?

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There have always been and will always continue to be but the interwebs have given them an equal voice perhaps?

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

This is the first vaccine in history in which its failure to work is being blamed on those who do not take it.

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Obviously when people don't get the protection offered by the vaccine the virus has a greater chance to continue to circulate. If less people have TB jabs there will be more TB, for example.

I would imagine the people not taking it and even trying to stop others from taking it are being blamed more vociferously because this is a pandemic affecting our lives and finances very directly from day to day and the majority of people are therefore getting more fed up with the anti-vaccine people prolonging it. It does become rather frustrating. I have a very good friend who has become a conspiracy theory promoter over the last four or five years and I now dread him calling, despite our friendship, as he is actively discouraging his own family from getting vaccines (although I suspect they will have done so without telling him).

This thread is very interesting, even to a greater or lesser degree disturbing. It has revealed a chasm between posters' opinions and between the ways in which they have come to those opinions. Is there any chance that people will change their views? I guess that as the percentage of people unvaccinated continues to reduce their collective voice should become quieter but that isn't always what happens. It will be interesting to follow what does.

By the way, with reference to your first couple of sentences here, MHRA Yellow Card scheme stats regarding deaths after vaccines are not stats for deaths due to vaccines. I know this data has been widely misinterpreted but continues to spread anyway. Here's just one clarification https://fullfact.org/online/vaccine-increase-covid-expose-false/

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Originally Posted by Mapperleypie

When Michael Gove said 'We've had enough of experts' I thought it was a dangerous statement but I didn't realise anyone would take him literally.

Turns out there are plenty of people that trust their own research on youtube and other dark spots on the internet over peer-reviewed medical journals. The mind boggles.

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This^^^

I don't want to get into a he says, she says, but Malone himself states he invented the vaccine. He didn't, he was one of a huge number of people involved in research. There's lots about his outlandish claim on the net, but this is the shortest, clearest piece
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

There have been a tiny number of deaths associated with the AZ vaccine. That's absolutely awful, but sadly any medical intervention carries a risk - look at the side effects and contradications on the fact sheet in a paracetamol packet for example.

The fact remains that covid vaccinations have saved millions of lives around the world and it simply isn't true to say it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by cher1

I don't want to get into a he says, she says, but Malone himself states he invented the vaccine. He didn't, he was one of a huge number of people involved in research. There's lots about his outlandish claim on the net, but this is the shortest, clearest piece
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

There have been a tiny number of deaths associated with the AZ vaccine. That's absolutely awful, but sadly any medical intervention carries a risk - look at the side effects and contradications on the fact sheet in a paracetamol packet for example.

The fact remains that covid vaccinations have saved millions of lives around the world and it simply isn't true to say it doesn't work.

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So what Malone says is entirely dependent on him being *the* inventor. If he's a merely a part of the pioneering teams who worked on it, then we can dismiss *everything* he says, or if he does say some things that are obviously true, we can dismiss the bits we don't like.

"Tiny" depends on your level of magnification and what you are comparing it to and what damage you are prepared to accept, and that is with no models for long term damage.

I need to do a separate post to describe how I've come to visualise - in as simple a way as possible - why these vaccines don't work, in the sense that very sort term benefits will only lead to us back to square one or far worse.

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Originally Posted by SwalePie

This thread is very interesting, even to a greater or lesser degree disturbing.

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Appreciate this Swale, and yes it is disturbing.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Appreciate this Swale, and yes it is disturbing.

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I've recently been reading a few articles from the USA advising families on how to have the delicate conversation with their vaccinated/unvaccinated relatives about Thanksgiving. It struck me that there will be a number of familes having those same fears around Christmas here in the UK. It must be very hard to ask certain people to stay away or to request people to take tests before coming for Christmas dinner. I'm lucky in that all of the people I'll be with at Christmas are on the same side of that particular fence as I am but I do feel for those who have to risk relationships with their friends and family in order to stay safe and enjoy Christmas (regardless of which side of the fence they are on). I'm sure some will decide that they should just get on with it, get protected and join the party but I'm equally sure that many will not and will thereby find themselves even further out on the fringes of society.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

I need to do a separate post to describe how I've come to visualise - in as simple a way as possible - why these vaccines don't work, in the sense that very sort term benefits will only lead to us back to square one or far worse.

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Please don’t… just go back to standing outside Marks and Spencer’s and St Mary’s and preach there thanks 🙂