Lawlessness under this goverment

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Originally Posted by WBA123

Actually you're right, it was good old Maggie who started us off on our way to the Single Market in 1992 (not the common market)...one of her very few successes.

And how right she was...

Here's a transcript of a speech she made on 18th April 1988;


"We must get this right. Too often in the past Britain has missed opportunities.

How we meet the challenge of the Single Market will be a major factor, possibly the major factor, in our competitive position in European and world markets into the twenty-first century. [end p2] Getting it right needs a partnership between government and business.

The task of government is two-fold: —to negotiate in Brussels so as to get the possible results for Britain; —and then to make you the business community aware of the opportunities, so that you can make the most of them. [end p3]

It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer.

Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power [end p4] of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.

Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States. On your doorstep. And with the Channel Tunnel to give you direct access to it.

It's not a dream. [end p5] It's not a vision. It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real"

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Hello again 123. I tend to keep my own own counsel regarding politics and rarely pass comment. As such I've no intention of becoming embroiled in an ongoing debate. However, it's interesting you should quote Maggie Thatcher so extensively. She was indeed an architect in our integration with the EU. Yet she was also an outspoken opponent of the EU increasing powers and influence over domestic policy as was widely reported at the time. I won't be going backwards and forwards to find quotes but I well remember reading of it. Many thanks for sourcing this passage though B) .

“We must get this right” – whether successive governments have got it right is very much open to opinion and debate, hence the referendum and it’s build up. “A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power ………… the purchasing power [end p4] of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.”

A single market without barriers allowing access to purchasing power eh? I think she was referring to free trade between European nations to further enhance their and our collective national wealth. I don’t think her grand plan envisioned the inclusion of economically weaker countries, or migration to the scales you’ve previously mentioned. In all honesty now, do you?

Further to this you've mentioned that the Daily 'Fail' and The Pun (my words not yours) use scare tactics and headlines to influence people's minds. Isn't this exactly what members of the Labour Party do via social media when lambasting the electorate with wildly inaccurate claims regarding funding etc during local elections? Promises for this and that which may or not be economically viable or even costed? I know I'm going off at a tangent here but both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of what you allude to regarding the poisoning of minds.

Personally speaking I gathered an awful lot of information over a long period of time before making my mind up as to which way I'd vote during the referendum. I certainly didn't rely on click bait sensationalist headlines. Much of the information I sourced was from Gov.UK, the EU Commissions site for Research and Innovation and a variety of think tanks both for and against Brexit. I'm sure you did the same, it's just that we came to different conclusions.

Anyway, have you got any idea who we're going to sign, who DM's assistant will be or whether I can finally loff at the Vile yet please ;D ?

As far as I'm concerned you can laugh at us all you like, it might bite you on the backside though if you don't go up in the next 2 years and stay under Chinese ownership ;D

Really good debate on here, if the readership of those awful papers woke up to the manipulation of thought that's going on and read some of this then their opinions just might be a lot more considered. I too was one of those that carefully listened to lots of radio debate and contributions from people in business & politics. Great point that democracy becomes a dictatorship when a vote stands that turns out to be worse than the alternative. It also gets right up my nose the disrespect shown by sections of the remainers to brexiteers and vice versa.

Minn...
"Did you hear the story of the white English lady who wanted to open a shop up Lye high street and was rounded on and threatened by a group of Asian men who threatened her to drop the idea or else?"
What does this have to do with leaving the EU? How many Asian people do you know that are from predominantly EU countries?

Is the thread not entitled 'Lawlessness under this government' I would have thought it self explanatory why I've included this story.

One of the many human traits, as I'm sure you're aware, is self preservation. The Romanians, who are mentioned in the examples provided by Mick and myself are displaying this, the Asians i'v mentioned are also displaying this, so why are we being challenged for displaying it? Perhaps you would prefer to abandon the name England and call us Europe Zone 2?

We simply want to keep things the way they were, not because we're frightened of change but because things are now evidently worse.

The £20 Billion government profit you talk of, are we better off as a result of it? I can't see that we are, I hear of Eastern Europeans being fast tracked in to the NHS, Police interpreter costs going through the roof, housing and benefits being provided to immigrants when our old who have worked all their lives have to surrender property meant for their off spring so as to pay for their keep.

I have a loathing for our governments past and present, all the Lilly livered Eton boys who reside in the leafy Surrey stockbroker suburbs are totally detached from reality. They may even be able to see what's going on but through fear of not towing the line and seeing the advancement of their political career go down the drain they keep quiet.

If you like the way things are going then I see you as someone I'd rather not discuss the matter with any further as clearly we will not agree, infact quite frankly it makes my blood boil.

All I can say is to all those who lived through the 50's before all this 5h1t landed here, I envy you.

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Originally Posted by westcountryvillain

As far as I'm concerned you can laugh at us all you like, it might bite you on the backside though if you don't go up in the next 2 years and stay under Chinese ownership ;D

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Okey dokey chap and cheers for the green light. As you insist I'll make the most of your club's current plight lest/if/when the same eventually befalls us. May as well make hay while the sun shines after a terrible season for the Albion ;D .

I've read the Comer brothers have reawakened their interest in Villa. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing given their track record of buying at rock bottom price and selling when on the high. You may have to endure Doctor X a fraction longer for the price to drop a little more before rising under their guidance, only to be sold on once more to who knows what?

However it turns out I'm sure it'll make for more interesting reading than sh i t loads of research papers relating to the EU and Brexit :zzz: . On a more personal level all of the very best to you and yours WCV. Keep the faith chap but remember it's the hope that kills ya B) .

Cheers '68 and the same to you fella, gonna be an interesting summer & (hopefully) an interesting season.

On James O'Brien's LBC slot today was a really interesting interview with a J.J.Patrick who wrote the book "Alternative War". He spoke of how humans now behave based on 140 character tweets (news) and how the Russians have expertly capitalised using psychology to disrupt/destabilise countries so that they are less able to react to hostile acts. He believes that in a generation's time when us lot are in the twilight of our lives there will be no way to undo it. Really scary stuff and no-one really knows what is truth - he's a really interesting guy, former police analyst who whistle blew and subsequently lost his career, that's where his journey began,

There has always been lawlessness, years ago rich people dug moats around their homes as protection against the roaming gangs of roughs. Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, is a poem centuries old reflecting these times.
Main roads like the A449 were infested with Highwaymen. The Rock Tavern at Caunsell was known to harbour many.

Corporal or Capital punishment had little effect, as late as the mid 18th century a wife could be burnt at the stake for killing her husband, while a husband could be hung drawn and quartered for killing her.
You could be hung for many offences, such as forgery, arson and theft, this was so in the early decades of the 19th century.
Executions were public until 1866, and drew huge crowds, far bigger than Albion get.

Murderers were gibbetted and hung at the place of their crime. One such was William Howe who murdered Mr Robins of Dunsley on his way home from Stourbridge Market in 1812. The lane between Stourbridge and Whittingham is still known as Gibbet Lane.
Other murderers were dissected and atomised, and their skin used to bind court documents.

With the population doubling so has the number of criminals, and crime is more widely covered and reported.
Finger printing, forensics and DNA make detection much easier today, it would have caught Jack The Ripper.

But there will always be lawlessness.

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Originally Posted by The Minn Junta

Minn...
Perhaps you would prefer to abandon the name England and call us Europe Zone 2?

We simply want to keep things the way they were, not because we're frightened of change but because things are now evidently worse.

The £20 Billion government profit you talk of, are we better off as a result of it? I can't see that we are, I hear of Eastern Europeans being fast tracked in to the NHS, Police interpreter costs going through the roof, housing and benefits being provided to immigrants.............

All I can say is to all those who lived through the 50's before all this 5h1t landed here, I envy you.

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Couple of things about this,

I would rather keep England, than 'Little England' or 'Sick man of Europe'

And, you can't see things are 'evidently' worse and follow up with what you've 'heard'. The equivalent is me saying how things are 'evidently' better we're in the EU because I've 'heard' that there are some friendly, hard working Europeans. If you're going to say things are evidently worse, provide some evidence, and not hearsay.

And 1955 is right, there always has been lawlessness, and there always will be. Its life. We just have to rely on the Govt and law enforcement to do their jobs properly.

Albionic, you make some great points. I respect the fact you have come to your own conclusion re Brexit. And I agree with you that Labour have some activist loons. However, we'll never know if their manifesto for the last election was properly costed or not. And the reason why the Tories are in power, is because 8 of the top 10 selling newspapers endorse them. But this is the written press for you...

Anyway, I'll now stick to all things England and blue & white and wish you all well. Bring on the World Cup and next seasons fixtures I say!! :o

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Originally Posted by WBA123

Couple of things about this,

I would rather keep England, than 'Little England' or 'Sick man of Europe'

And, you can't see things are 'evidently' worse and follow up with what you've 'heard'. The equivalent is me saying how things are 'evidently' better we're in the EU because I've 'heard' that there are some friendly, hard working Europeans. If you're going to say things are evidently worse, provide some evidence, and not hearsay.

And 1955 is right, there always has been lawlessness, and there always will be. Its life. We just have to rely on the Govt and law enforcement to do their jobs properly.

Albionic, you make some great points. I respect the fact you have come to your own conclusion re Brexit. And I agree with you that Labour have some activist loons. However, we'll never know if their manifesto for the last election was properly costed or not. And the reason why the Tories are in power, is because 8 of the top 10 selling newspapers endorse them. But this is the written press for you...

Anyway, I'll now stick to all things England and blue & white and wish you all well. Bring on the World Cup and next seasons fixtures I say!! :o

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Why not? Is it not possible to see decline with your own eyes and hear of it from others who have witnessed the same? Or does this not suit your rhetoric? You also seem to fixated with Daily Mail and Sun readers, I read neither, having worked for a newspaper I can tell you I'm well aware of how they operate.

What people have being talking about behind closed doors for a while now is starting to come out into the public domain. How do I know this? Well for one I'm self employed, I work at close hand every day with the general public, I have a policy of not discussing politics with them, as it's turned out there's no need, it's them who raise it now.

You ask for evidence, FFS how long have you got?! Take our British Gas Engineer who repaired our boiler recently, he took his daughter to hospital who was in severe abdominal pain, he was waiting for one and a half hours with her clutching her side, in walks an Eastern European family who can't speak a word of English, they stood at the counter for five minutes then walked through to a doctor. The Engineers wife asked why are they going through before us, the reply from the desk was, oh we have to fast track them in as we cant understand their language. Needless to say the Engineer and his wife were infuriated and there daughter still had to continue to wait in pain.

I could go on and on but I'm buggered if I'm going to sit here typing for your benefit when all I'm doing is waisting my time.

Why don't you ask the people of Wolverhampton what they think of their town centre now, and on a smaller scale Lye?

Obviously I'm just a 'Little Englander' in your eyes, I'm amazed the race card hasn't being produced yet. You remind me a lot of Gordon Brown when he went on a walk about and famously left his mic' on whilst continuing to talk about the 'bigoted woman' he had just falsely smiled at.


As I said, there's no point in discussing it as we'll never agree.