o/t global warming

It seems increasingly like, whatever country they are from, the vast majority of politicians, especially those in power, are incapable of joined up thinking and the costing new initiatives and working out what they would actually cost "from the cradle to the grave". If they worked in industry they wouldn't last 5 minutes and, if they did, the company they work for would go down the pan very quickly.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

It seems increasingly like, whatever country they are from, the vast majority of politicians, especially those in power, are incapable of joined up thinking and the costing new initiatives and working out what they would actually cost "from the cradle to the grave". If they worked in industry they wouldn't last 5 minutes and, if they did, the company they work for would go down the pan very quickly.

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That gets a thumbs up from me

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

It seems increasingly like, whatever country they are from, the vast majority of politicians, especially those in power, are incapable of joined up thinking and the costing new initiatives and working out what they would actually cost "from the cradle to the grave". If they worked in industry they wouldn't last 5 minutes and, if they did, the company they work for would go down the pan very quickly.

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I can see what your getting at, but given what happens at companies, I give you the VW emission scandal, or Thames Water or the Royal Bank of Scotland fiasco I think your possibly overestimating the competence and ability of those in power in any organisation run by humans.

My experience in various public and private organisations is that many of those who rise to the top (a phrase about excrement comes to mind) have done so through their ability to BS, self promotion over confidence in their own ability and climbing over the backs of others who actually do the real work.

The issue with politicians is that they are exposed publicly, have to try and respond to voters with different priorities and views many of whom are incapable or unwilling to make the effort to understand the issues and equate voting politically to voting for the X factor. Most "captains" of industry are not subject to such public examination, until the wheels come off that is. Though Fred the shred ex of RBS has a 600k pension I understand, not bad for catastrophic failure?

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Originally Posted by swaledale

I can see what your getting at, but given what happens at companies, I give you the VW emission scandal, or Thames Water or the Royal Bank of Scotland fiasco I think your possibly overestimating the competence and ability of those in power in any organisation run by humans.

My experience in various public and private organisations is that many of those who rise to the top (a phrase about excrement comes to mind) have done so through their ability to BS, self promotion over confidence in their own ability and climbing over the backs of others who actually do the real work.

The issue with politicians is that they are exposed publicly, have to try and respond to voters with different priorities and views many of whom are incapable or unwilling to make the effort to understand the issues and equate voting politically to voting for the X factor. Most "captains" of industry are not subject to such public examination, until the wheels come off that is. Though Fred the shred ex of RBS has a 600k pension I understand, not bad for catastrophic failure?

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Yet most companies still turn a profit which is why they still exist. Whether it's at local, County or National level, it's a mess. Infrastructure projects always cost several times more than the quote that got the gig in the first place. One company I worked for moved 11 miles down the road. We had a budget. The move was completed on the original date set and was within budget. Had we been a ministry rather than a Ltd company it would have gone way over budget and probably been delivered late too.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Yet most companies still turn a profit which is why they still exist. Whether it's at local, County or National level, it's a mess. Infrastructure projects always cost several times more than the quote that got the gig in the first place. One company I worked for moved 11 miles down the road. We had a budget. The move was completed on the original date set and was within budget. Had we been a ministry rather than a Ltd company it would have gone way over budget and probably been delivered late too.

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MM I give you Thames Water, Debenhams, RBS, Northern Rock, Lemans bank, Boeing, Bodyshop, and many other examples of companies both big and small that have gone bust, into administration or made heavy losses in recent years.

Having worked in both the public and private sector, its a myth in my experience that the private sector is better managed or organised. There are examples of mismanagement on both sides, not to mention price fixing, corruption, etc. etc. Yes government and public sector projects go wrong and over budget but a cursory look at examples where the private sector has had government/public sector roles out sourced to them will reveal that in many cases the costs have risen, delivery is poor and quality lacking.

I've been involved in a number of national and local government construction and service contracts which delivered on time and under or on budget, funnily enough nobody mentions these, just the disasters. I mean Trump has had what 5 or 6 bankruptcies? Yet he hasn't paid the price, just his contractors, employees and suppliers.

Human beings **** up things quite often, they also get things right, there is a tendency to ascribe all failures and excessive costs to national or local government, which is not the case in reality.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Yet most companies still turn a profit which is why they still exist. Whether it's at local, County or National level, it's a mess. Infrastructure projects always cost several times more than the quote that got the gig in the first place. One company I worked for moved 11 miles down the road. We had a budget. The move was completed on the original date set and was within budget. Had we been a ministry rather than a Ltd company it would have gone way over budget and probably been delivered late too.

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The big exception to ?most? are those that are as close to ?public sector? as makes no difference - water, train franchises being the obvious examples. Badly run private sector companies go bust, public sector get a ?free? (ok not free but at a discount) pass. From my experience the mindset is totally more focussed in the private sector

If things went slightly over, then I'd go along with AF and Swale in their arguments. However, Crossrail and other London projects have gone WAY over budget. Then there's the daddy of them all, HS2. The original 30BN is now 100BN more than quoted and quite likely rising yet higher.

How on earth is that possible?

The scale of quotes being light years more expensive than the quote in the public sector is far greater than that of the private sector.

Swale. Which of the companies you mentioned because an infrastructure project they went into with a supplier ended up being far more than they could afford?