O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

I don't follow any version of the Qur'an. I don't demonise the majority who choose to ignore the evil verses either. I just acknowledge that the reason these extremists believe what they do in the first place, is because they DO choose to follow the evil verses in the Qur'an.

Look, I have been saying for years that the problem will only get worse if we continue the way we are. Well, nothing has changed with the way the media, the government and the moderate Muslims react, behave and treat the issue of extremism.

But the extremism has just got worse and worse. If we don't change our thinking, it will only continue to get worse and worse. I guess in five years time I will still be banging my head against a brick wall trying to get people to address the issue and see it for what it is, whilst terrorism continues to get worse. Only now we also have idiots committing terror attacks against Muslims now as well.

So we will continue as a nation to do nothing, Islamic extremists will continue to commit terror attacks in the name of Allah through following his orders in the Qur'an, the media, the government, the left, the moderate Muslims will all continue to say it has nothing to do with Islam, we will get more Islamic terror attacks, people will talk about how bad it is, light candles and put flags and filters on their Facebook accounts, tell everyone Islam is the religion of peace, more people will grow frustrated and there will be more revenge terror attacks, the real far right will find it easier to recruit people willing to do their bidding, there will be more terrorist attacks on mosques, Muslim extremists will find it easier to radicalise people in return and we will soon see schools, hospitals and football stadiums becoming targets of Islamic terrorism, people will react in anger, and there will be war on the streets.

Is that what you want? Because that's what's going to happen.

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Of course that's not what i want, and to be honest i don't think that's going to happen. You talk of continuing the way we are, you're not recognising that you're part of the problem, along with 'Tommy' et al, and no matter how much you say you're not demonising every muslim, in reality that's exactly what you're doing, in reality that's exactly what ISIS is doing to anything westernised, demonising us all as infidels to their followers, don't you see that?

To be honest there's a hell of a lot more the muslim community could do, in terms of informing on folk they know to be radicalised(having said that, the manchester bomber was informed on by his friends and we did nothing) and there's a hell of a lot more we could all do to try and get along and just live our lives, it's not rocket science from either community really.

i think Tommy Robinson must be yer dad Ellis ;D Even I had criticism of me dad bless his socks...

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

Deport foreigners on the terror suspects list, intern British ones, put much more money in to home security, more police officers, stop invading Islamic nations. More regulation of mosques and madrasas, more communication with the peaceful Islamic community, make sure there are no Muslim only areas (and by the same token no non-Muslim only areas), and politicians and moderate Muslims to accept it's the verses in the Qur'an that is the starting point of the radicalisation of some Muslims. Without them there could be no basis for the radicalisation.

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Quite happy to see most of what you suggest as part of the action plan, as discussed previously. I don't know of any Muslim only areas - where do I find these? What happens if a peaceful, law abiding citizen enters one? Evidence for this?

Most importantly, relating to this part of the thread, even if we were to go along with your premise that we want "politicians and moderate Muslims to accept it's the verses in the Qur'an that is the starting point of the radicalisation of some Muslims" - how would you go about gaining this 'acceptance'? I don't think that anyone would deny that these sacred text words are used by leaders to justify and engage 'recruits' to action, but they are also used by the other 99% as an important part of their way of life. So what practical action or even legislation can achieve what appears to be such a vague aim?

Regarding 'regulation of mosques and madrases' I think that it is important that we work with community and mosque leaders to get transparency and weed out any remaining unlawful activity. But it's the form of this that is crucial - How will you 'police' it whilst maintaining the positive relationships of which you seek? I think we have set a way forward with presence of police in the community, building relationships over time, planning and running community multi faith events etc. (it should be pointed out that most mosques are already seizing this initiative, including the one that was attacked) But as discussed earlier (pre election) we at ground level have seen this police initiative significantly scaled back (which obviously you cover with your own requirement of "more police officers"). For me we have to resist 'storming' Muslim community gatherings.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

On a separate note, I saw a video earlier of the terrorist being held down by some Muslims. Those Muslims should undoubtedly be commended. Some other Muslims were kicking him and trying to hit him., and three or four were stopping them, whilst also pinning him down for the police to sort out.

That is, of course, the correct action to take if we believe in law and order. Those Muslims clearly abide by our laws, and I love them for that.

Because they have just witnessed their friends and maybe even family members being run over by a nutjob terrorist. It takes a lot of restraint to not want to kick the bloke's head off his shoulders for that. I would have wanted to had I been there. Some of the men there did. But the ones holding him down and ensuring he wasn't attacked saved his life, and also saved their friends from jail because some would have wanted to beat him to death, and I can't blame them to be honest.

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Well said here Ellis. Agree 100%

Islamophobic attacks in Manchester surge by 500% after arena attack

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e-arena-attack


This is what happens when we openly pursue simplistic reactionary agendas.

If you say that Islam is the root problem, you are directly implying that anyone who follows that religion is part of the problem, including the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.

Consequently, people are acting out racially motivated acts on random Muslims.

As a result, a minority of the Muslim community, threatened by these attacks look to other sources for belonging, that sympathises with their fear and offers them bloody options, vengeance.

As discussed earlier: to blame Islam as a religion, the text, is to generalise the blame to all people who follow that religion and therefore to make them legitimate targets for our own lunatics. If you spread that nonsense around, you are part of the vicious cycle of which we are part.

But most frustratingly of all, it is a completely pointless assertion: you can cry that the Quar'an is the problem, that Islam is to blame, you can take it into TV debates and wave it around but as I asked earlier (to which no one replied with an answer): what are you suggesting that we DO about it? Ban a religion? Ban the book? Ban the idea? erase it from people's heads and hearts?

We need practical, logical and sensible ideas, things that work. Some good ones have been proposed by various people on here, and we need to collectively run with those. But this continual shouting against an entire religion with no actual follow up proposal of cohesive action only leads to the actions of this report.

Giving Isis EXACTLY what they want.