OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Didn't exactly stop the French helping the opposition did it?

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EU solidarity at its finest

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

C’mon Tricky...virtually everyone accepts that the Falklands War was manufactured to bolster the popularity of a fading and increasingly out of favour PM.
It was populism at work again...’Britain rules the waves, never shall be slaves’ and all that bollux.
It was the Tories, and Thatcher in particular, manufacturing a situation to court popularity just as Brexit appeals to the populist Little Britain mentality, only in 1982 all too many of our unfortunate servicemen paid with their lives or life changing injuries at least.

You’re right of course in that Argentina acted badly and were not blameless but the whole thing was avoidable except that a ‘nice’ convenient little war against an infinitely weaker ‘enemy’ suited the Tory cause at the time and yes, I know, the Hong Kong situation is different but the comparative lack of sabre rattling and the rapidity with which we left once big old China demanded it was in very marked contrast to how we ‘stood up’ to those pesky little Argies.

Anyway, unbelievably it’s thirty seven years ago now, let’s move on.

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You do have a wierd recollection of history rA.

China was leased, they wanted it back, didn't offer a lease extension, we gave it back

Falklands were and are crown territory and invaded by another sovereign state

To put it simply, with an analogy. If you owned a house and squatters broke in and started sleeping in your bed, you'd take action to remove them. If you leased your house and your landlord did not renew your lease, you would move out and hand back the keys.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

C’mon Tricky...virtually everyone accepts that the Falklands War was manufactured to bolster the popularity of a fading and increasingly out of favour PM.
It was populism at work again...’Britain rules the waves, never shall be slaves’ and all that bollux.
It was the Tories, and Thatcher in particular, manufacturing a situation to court popularity just as Brexit appeals to the populist Little Britain mentality, only in 1982 all too many of our unfortunate servicemen paid with their lives or life changing injuries at least.

You’re right of course in that Argentina acted badly and were not blameless but the whole thing was avoidable except that a ‘nice’ convenient little war against an infinitely weaker ‘enemy’ suited the Tory cause at the time and yes, I know, the Hong Kong situation is different but the comparative lack of sabre rattling and the rapidity with which we left once big old China demanded it was in very marked contrast to how we ‘stood up’ to those pesky little Argies.

Anyway, unbelievably it’s thirty seven years ago now, let’s move on.

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I never said Thatcher didn't milk it for all it's worth.
However, what choice did she have? Act or do a Corbyn. Abandon British citizens and send a strong letter. Even the UN told them to withdraw. They didn't. Only option was boot them out.
The Junta did the very thing you are accusing Thatcher of actually.
America helped as much as it could. The EU did feck all, as usual.

I think my recollection of it, is more accurate than yours.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

You do have a wierd recollection of history rA.

China was leased, they wanted it back, didn't offer a lease extension, we gave it back

Falklands were and are crown territory and invaded by another sovereign state

To put it simply, with an analogy. If you owned a house and squatters broke in and started sleeping in your bed, you'd take action to remove them. If you leased your house and your landlord did not renew your lease, you would move out and hand back the keys.

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Take your point and accept your informed view of history, Parky.
Suspect it may have been a little more complex than you suggest though.
Did the negotiations for returning Hong Kong not begin in 1982, a year after the Falklands War, and take a further fifteen years until the situation was resolved?
Slightly different mindset from the one regarding the Falklands for, admittedly, largely the reasons you suggest.

Think it was Hong Kong, not China, that was leased. ;D

‘I never said Thatcher didn’t milk it for all it was worth’.

At last! We agree, Tricky. I rest my case although I’ve no idea why you’ve introduced Corbyn into the argument.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

‘I never said Thatcher didn’t milk it for all it was worth’.

At last! We agree, Tricky. I rest my case although I’ve no idea why you’ve introduced Corbyn into the argument.

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Weird, just weird :s

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Weird, just weird :s

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In what way?
You’ve conceded that Thatcher ‘milked’ the Falklands scenario for ‘all it was worth’ which was my point when I talked of it being a contrived and manufactured war and I don’t know why, yet again, you’ve introduced Corbyn into the conversation.
What’s ‘weird’ about that...apart from the fact that, for once, you and I agree? ;D

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

GP...you know better than that. To say that the Labour Party is ‘ultimately anti Semitic’ is ridiculous. There may well be anti semites within the Labour Party and there are almost certainly members of the Labour Party who are opposed to the Israeli stance on Palestine, but to describe the Labour Party as ‘ultimately anti Semitic’ makes about as much sense as describing all football supporters as hooligans.

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Changing tack a little here BUT.......

IMHO, anyone who is opposed to the Israeli stance is not automatically anti semitic. Not all Jews are Israeli, not all Israelis are Jews. People opposed to the atrocities Israel carries out are anti the political stance of a country NOT against Jews in general or against those who speak one of the Semite languages (some Arabs also spoke/speak a Semite language).

The Isreali stance and related actions on Palestine have been condemned by more than 75 UN Resolutions. Does that make the UN anti semitic? No it doesn't.

I don't doubt that there are some anti semites in the Labour party. I have the same feelings with reagrd to the Tories, Lib Dems and any other party. A handful doesn't make something endemic.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

In what way?
You’ve conceded that Thatcher ‘milked’ the Falklands scenario for ‘all it was worth’ which was my point when I talked of it being a contrived and manufactured war and I don’t know why, yet again, you’ve introduced Corbyn into the conversation.
What’s ‘weird’ about that...apart from the fact that, for once, you and I agree? ;D

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you have the most selective memory and way of reading things, I have ever witnessed. You gloryfy my comment, that Thatcher "milked it" like a moral victory to your views. You have all the hallmarks of a narcissist.

1.When I say milked it. She basked in the adulation of doing what a leader of the UK should do. Protect British citizens and sovereign territory. When we won the world cup, what would you call the aftermath?

2. Contrived? Are you on drugs? The Falklands were "invaded" by an aggressive power. What part of that, does your education mindset not understand?

3. I introduced Corbyn, because you and him are of the same tunnel mindset. He has said many times, we should abandon the Falklands. Leave British citizens to their fate. In 1982, he would have done **** all and you know it.
In power today, Corbyn would strip the forces to the bones and align us with Cuba as an axis against capitalism.

4. You ignore every part of posts you don't want to read, or accept. The EU do nothing, to help anyone when it isn't in the Empires interest. They failed to help a mamber state. They even helped an enemy against us.

5. Servicemen sign up, to protect the state and it's sovereign territories. Don't like that? Don't join. It isn't compulsory.

Weird completely covers your analysis of things. QED.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

you have the most selective memory and way of reading things, I have ever witnessed. You gloryfy my comment, that Thatcher "milked it" like a moral victory to your views. You have all the hallmarks of a narcissist.

1.When I say milked it. She basked in the adulation of doing what a leader of the UK should do. Protect British citizens and sovereign territory. When we won the world cup, what would you call the aftermath?

2. Contrived? Are you on drugs? The Falklands were "invaded" by an aggressive power. What part of that, does your education mindset not understand?

3. I introduced Corbyn, because you and him are of the same tunnel mindset. He has said many times, we should abandon the Falklands. Leave British citizens to their fate. In 1982, he would have done **** all and you know it.
In power today, Corbyn would strip the forces to the bones and align us with Cuba as an axis against capitalism.

4. You ignore every part of posts you don't want to read, or accept. The EU do nothing, to help anyone when it isn't in the Empires interest. They failed to help a mamber state. They even helped an enemy against us.

5. Servicemen sign up, to protect the state and it's sovereign territories. Don't like that? Don't join. It isn't compulsory.

Weird completely covers your analysis of things. QED.

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Narcissist! Lol!!

1. Your definition of ‘milked it’ equals ‘basked in the adulation’ apparently. Mine equals ‘exploited’. Either way...she was very unpopular pre the Falklands and as you agree...’basked in the adulation’ afterwards. Not much difference.

2. Keep your hair on Tricky...’I’ve never denied that the Falklands were ‘invaded’ but given all the circumstances...was the reaction from the Government and PM of the time the only way to go about things? In my opinion the whole reaction was politically orchestrated and young lives, both British and Argentinian, were lost unnecessarily.

3. I am not of the same mindset as Corbyn in any way. I don’t approve of his leadership and I believe it’s a tragedy that his inadequacies as leader of the opposition are partly responsible for the mess we are in today.
I’m not aware of him having any intent to ‘abandon’ the Falkland Islanders although he has spoken of the need for talks to resolve an issue which continues to be something of an ‘open sore’ between the two countries. Given the geographical location of the Falklands that seems quite reasonable to me.
As far as ‘stripping the forces to the bones’ is concerned...that possibly has already happened and the ‘Cuba/axis against capitalism’ point is just not worth a response.

4. Clearly I don’t ‘ignore every part of posts I don’t accept’ or I wouldn’t be replying to you would I...and how exactly did the EU ‘help the enemy’ against us?

5. What a strange comment from you of all people.
Obviously those who ‘join up’ are making a conscious decision which will involve, depending on circumstances and situation, putting their lives in danger. To that extent I agree with you.
Beyond that, if you think that governments then abandon all responsibility for actions which put the lives of our troops in danger for, in this case, very dubious reasons then I fundamentally disagree with you.