A Perfect Storm

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Originally Posted by crazyfists

I thank God we've got these owners as I believe they understand how a club like ours has the best chance of success in the modern game. Long gone are the days of the maverick one off manager as getting a really good one isn't easy as we can all testify to. Added to that if he does well he'll get snapped up by a bigger club. Then (if you use the old model) we waste time and money changing out managers, coaching staff and playing staff. Rinse and repeat as we go down the leagues.

Or we could build a system where if the head coach does well and leaves then another steps in to take his place but this is pretty much seemless because of the ethos and style of play the club is known for. This should in theory not stop the momentum of the successful head coach. Everyone quotes Brentford but teams like Swansea and Southampton also have been doing it awhile.

As a club we can't afford to swap out everything and everyone each time we get a new manager with a different style. We've seen IB try to go more attacking which in turn has led to some criticism of him and the owners but this isn't his team or his players. With the method the owners now employ then this should be the last time we completely swap out playing styles etc. I think it's the best chance we have of getting anywhere near the championship in our future and the way the modern game is going especially post covid.

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If it's one thing the past twenty years has taught us is short term thinking and x number of years plans do not work. Likewise boom and bust has nearly killed the club on more than one occasion. It is simply not sustainable and another way and path has to be taken for the club to rise again.

There is a common phrase that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and is that not fitting for where this club has ended up in the National League? From Scardino/Storrie all the way through to the Reedtz brothers I think all the owners had good intentions to take the club forward and I don't think either had malice but at the end of each tenure the club was in a worst place than where it was either on or off the field or both.

The problem is this culture of consistent hire and fire of managers, players, coaches turnover, complete changes in style and methods and financial boom and bust is engrained in the culture of the club after so long it became the norm. Like an addiction it is going to take some time for the habit to be broken.

Fan expectation is high at this club because of the level we are at and that is going to be the biggest source of friction while we are in this league. We are like when Man City, Leeds, Sheff Utd and Wed, Forest (and currently Sunderland) were in League One. I do believe we will get back to the football league hopefully at the earliest opportunity so that non-league tag and noose is removed.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

The only time this century was when we stumbled on a fantastic takeover and a cast iron guarantee!

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He should have cashed the cheque in and run off with the money ;)

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Originally Posted by Old_pie

But only once a century do we have a manager that can give us more than one amazing season.

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Exactly - any manager who can do that is quickly going to be off to a bigger club as they’re so hard to find.

This is why the head coach model is becoming so attractive to clubs. If they’re just one part of a successful structure rather than running the whole show, then they’re much easier to replace without huge upheaval if one either does so well that they’re poached or so badly that they’re sacked.

Interesting thoughts and viewpoint on the head coach model.

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

Exactly - any manager who can do that is quickly going to be off to a bigger club as they’re so hard to find.

This is why the head coach model is becoming so attractive to clubs. If they’re just one part of a successful structure rather than running the whole show, then they’re much easier to replace without huge upheaval if one either does so well that they’re poached or so badly that they’re sacked.

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You really need a very strong set-up, hopefully we have that.

Do you think though that managers 'run the whole show'? Some might, some might think they do, and some Chairmen and women try to play the role.

A difficulty with this model is that you say they do badly so they are sacked. What happens though if the ones doing the other parts of the usual manager's role do badly.?

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Originally Posted by MAD_MAGPIE

If it's one thing the past twenty years has taught us is short term thinking and x number of years plans do not work. Likewise boom and bust has nearly killed the club on more than one occasion. It is simply not sustainable and another way and path has to be taken for the club to rise again.

There is a common phrase that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and is that not fitting for where this club has ended up in the National League? From Scardino/Storrie all the way through to the Reedtz brothers I think all the owners had good intentions to take the club forward and I don't think either had malice but at the end of each tenure the club was in a worst place than where it was either on or off the field or both.

The problem is this culture of consistent hire and fire of managers, players, coaches turnover, complete changes in style and methods and financial boom and bust is engrained in the culture of the club after so long it became the norm. Like an addiction it is going to take some time for the habit to be broken.

Fan expectation is high at this club because of the level we are at and that is going to be the biggest source of friction while we are in this league. We are like when Man City, Leeds, Sheff Utd and Wed, Forest (and currently Sunderland) were in League One. I do believe we will get back to the football league hopefully at the earliest opportunity so that non-league tag and noose is removed.

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A beautiful post.

Our continuing failed boom and bust short term approach has indeed become the norm at Meadow Lane.

If we are going to fail it would be nice to fail a different way. A slower fail. It is after all the hope (and false promises) that kill you.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

You really need a very strong set-up, hopefully we have that.

Do you think though that managers 'run the whole show'? Some might, some might think they do, and some Chairmen and women try to play the role.

A difficulty with this model is that you say they do badly so they are sacked. What happens though if the ones doing the other parts of the usual manager's role do badly.?

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Not everywhere. Some do, and I think the ones we were talking about earlier in the thread tend to fall into that category.

Everyone in the structure needs to have the same accountability as the manager does really. It’s hard to judge at Notts at the minute, because we don’t yet have a clear sense of who does what. We know that the owners/their company has had some input into transfers, but from the snippets we heard from NA that seemed to be more recommending people for him to look at and evaluating names he put forward rather than setting the whole strategy. I think we’ve seen the limits of the kind of blended approach we’ve gone for so far in the squad that we’ve ended up with, which feels like a messy amalgamation of players NA wanted and players the owners wanted, rather than anything coherent. Which is probably one of the reasons why we now have a head coach who seemingly shared the same philosophy as the owners.

What it’s currently missing really is someone in that sporting director role. I think Richard Montague seems to be the lead from Football Radar in the recruitment stuff, but that’s not the same role.

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

Not everywhere. Some do, and I think the ones we were talking about earlier in the thread tend to fall into that category.

Everyone in the structure needs to have the same accountability as the manager does really. It’s hard to judge at Notts at the minute, because we don’t yet have a clear sense of who does what. We know that the owners/their company has had some input into transfers, but from the snippets we heard from NA that seemed to be more recommending people for him to look at and evaluating names he put forward rather than setting the whole strategy. I think we’ve seen the limits of the kind of blended approach we’ve gone for so far in the squad that we’ve ended up with, which feels like a messy amalgamation of players NA wanted and players the owners wanted, rather than anything coherent. Which is probably one of the reasons why we now have a head coach who seemingly shared the same philosophy as the owners.

What it’s currently missing really is someone in that sporting director role. I think Richard Montague seems to be the lead from Football Radar in the recruitment stuff, but that’s not the same role.

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Agree with your comments, but they don't answer my last question.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

Agree with your comments, but they don't answer my last question.

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They get moved on. Brentford, as the obvious comparison, have changed their Director of Football a few times on their journey up the leagues.

If you keep signing bad players, you change whoever’s got ultimate responsibility for recruitment. Etc etc.

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

They get moved on. Brentford, as the obvious comparison, have changed their Director of Football a few times on their journey up the leagues.

If you keep signing bad players, you change whoever’s got ultimate responsibility for recruitment. Etc etc.

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I completely agree with this stance. The recruitment is the foundation to how successful the team will ultimately be and how it will evolve and is key to everything. The rest follows on from this. Get that wrong or make mistakes on that and you have put yourself at a disadvantage from the first game of the season and that is regardless of who the manager or head coach is as they can only do so much with tactics and players that they have got to work with.