Youth set up

[lancaster100]

Well I say it again. Our u23's and youth teams are simply not good enough. Ok so we lost to Swansea 1-0. In terms of club status this is probably not a surprise but somewhere the club needs to scout better talent than we have currently got. I do understand no one wants to be too hard on these early learners but football gets rid of the players and scouts who do not produce decent performances and on the basis of recent results there is a need for a overhaul at all levels.

If we are to spend cash in this area we must make sure it is value for money and have the potential to break into the first team. When we did have an exceptional youth set up we had players breaking into the first team at the tender age of 16 - 18 and many of those went on to be fabulous professionals and players. It is this approach that showed the youth set up was good value for money.

[Supersub6]

You are living in a bygone era and you know nothing about the team that played today and I can't be bothered going over the reasons when nothing which has been said already has not gone in.
If you are involved with any youth football in any area of the country you would know the problems and there is no easy fix when Chelsea can pay 11 players in an Under 21 team in the Checkatrade Trophy an average of £93,000 per week.

[oldcolner]

As one earwig said to another Earwigo again

[lancaster100]

You are living in a bygone era and you know nothing about the team that played today and I can't be bothered going over the reasons when nothing which has been said already has not gone in.
If you are involved with any youth football in any area of the country you would know the problems and there is no easy fix when Chelsea can pay 11 players in an Under 21 team in the Checkatrade Trophy an average of £93,000 per week.

I accept I am comparing a bygone era to now you are right. However, whatever the period the same principles apply. In the first instance you have to have a very good scouting approach, spotting the talent (I accept the big clubs will have first dibs) but one of our advantages is to be able to give better opportunities at a first team place earlier than the other big clubs (if they are good enough they should get their chance). I take your point about the wages but at present whatever we pay is having no impact, so the decision must be to scrap the youths or invest a little more and get better players pushing for first team places. My main issue is that scouts are not finding decent talent (not the best in the world but should be fairly good - look at the first team punching above their weight) so they need to look somewhere else

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Building a really solid youth set up requires time and patience.

It is apparent we are in it for the long game.

Results are not important, game time and development of individuals is.

I am by no means certain that the likes of a 16 or 17 year old Dave Thomas, Steve Kindon, Willie Morgan et al would have any chance whatsoever of breaking into any current EPL team.

Have some patience Lancaster100, we can afford the expenditure.

[Supersub6]

We lost a game to the current cup holders who are currently 4th in the top division of the PL Youth Development League. We had a very young team playing because quite a number of regulars had been withdrawn to play in a behind closed doors game today in order to give members of the first team squad some game time and, in particular, those coming back from injury.
Also in our group were Newcastle who, although they have had a poor season, are well established and are in the 2nd Division of the PLYDL which is a level above where we are playing.

The youth system had been decimated over the last few years because of various factors, however, it was our manager's wish that the facilities at Gawthorpe were brought up to PL standard and that this would aid the youth recruitment and development. We are basically in the first season and looking to the future, therefore, it is a matter of time to see whether the development will take place ---you just have to be patient with the process and also realise that there is not the same amount of talent around that ther was in the 1950s and 1960s ----many children would rather play on their computers etc. Another problem is that kids are picked up to go to football academies at 6 and 7 year old and many are literally on the scrap heap by the time they are 15 or 16 having been told that they will not make it.

[oldcolner]

Under 23s win 4-0 with a strong team out - shows the need for having a team even if some are not u 23.

James Tarkowski successfully came through 90 minutes and Tom Heaton got another game under his belt in a behind-closed-doors work-out at Turf Moor.

Tarkowski has been out for over a month with a groin problem but stepped up his fitness in a 4-0 win over Preston North End.

Sam Vokes scored with two first-half headers before GK Nkoudou capped an eye-catching performance with a double of his own after the break.

Chris Wood also played 90 minutes for the first time since the knee injury he sustained in December which had kept the striker out until last Saturday’s return to first-team duty on the bench.

And there were also full games for Dean Marney and Nahki Wells as the Clarets dodged the snow flurries to benefit from a highly useful run-out.

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/...s-turf-return/

[lancaster100]

Right Supersub6 you may be right that I am living in a bygone era but over many years the stats don't lie. Looking at the list I have come up with it looks like if you are not getting in the first team by 19 you will not be making the grade. This is my list with age of first game:
Through the Youth System Age
Jimmy Adamson 22
Jock Aird 22
John Angus 18
Adam Blacklaw 19
Ralph Coates 18
John Connelly 18
Tommy Cummings 19
Brian Flynn 19
Ray Hankin 17
Gordon Harris 18
Billy Ingam 17
Willie Irvine 19
Leighton James 17
Steve Kindon 18
Brian Laws 18
Andy Lochhead 19
Colin McDonald 18
Brian Miller 18
Willie Morgan 16
Brian O'Neil 18
Vince Overson 17
Mike Phelan 17
Brian Pilkington 18
Ray Pointer 21
Jimmy Robson 17
Jay Rodriguez 18
Derek Scott 16
Fred Smith 21
John Talbut 17
Dave Thomas 16
Lee Dixon 18
Trevor Steven 17

There are probably more but what this says to me is if we have players above 21 and they are not knocking on the door then they will not be good enough so get rid and then kick the scouts up the ....... and tell them this is the list they are being compared to the scouts need to do there job better

[alfinyalcabo]

Derek Scott was in my opinion probably the worst footballer I've seen in a Claret and blue shirt ..He was a trier though ..

[Supersub6]

Right Supersub6 you may be right that I am living in a bygone era but over many years the stats don't lie. Looking at the list I have come up with it looks like if you are not getting in the first team by 19 you will not be making the grade. This is my list with age of first game:
Through the Youth System Age
Jimmy Adamson 22
Jock Aird 22
John Angus 18
Adam Blacklaw 19
Ralph Coates 18
John Connelly 18
Tommy Cummings 19
Brian Flynn 19
Ray Hankin 17
Gordon Harris 18
Billy Ingam 17
Willie Irvine 19
Leighton James 17
Steve Kindon 18
Brian Laws 18
Andy Lochhead 19
Colin McDonald 18
Brian Miller 18
Willie Morgan 16
Brian O'Neil 18
Vince Overson 17
Mike Phelan 17
Brian Pilkington 18
Ray Pointer 21
Jimmy Robson 17
Jay Rodriguez 18
Derek Scott 16
Fred Smith 21
John Talbut 17
Dave Thomas 16
Lee Dixon 18
Trevor Steven 17

There are probably more but what this says to me is if we have players above 21 and they are not knocking on the door then they will not be good enough so get rid and then kick the scouts up the ....... and tell them this is the list they are being compared to the scouts need to do there job better

As I said --you are living in a different era as far as football is concerned. There were lots of lads around who really wanted to play football and were playing in local leagues before they ever got to the Turf.
Nowadays, because Academies are taking kids as young as 6 or 7 years old there are too many thrown on the scrap heap by the time they are 15 years old and they just lose interest.
We used to have leagues up here in the north east with 12 divisions of 12 teams in Newcastle as well as various other local leagues with three divisions of 14+ teams.
We now have approximately one third of the number of leagues and probably only one quarter the number of players actually playing at a reasonable level and developing. This is prevalent throughout the country if you talk to other people who are involved in the game.

As I said before, there were mega problems at Burnley until just recently and a lot of scouts just packed in, therefore, the whole system has to be rebuilt and this is what is happening. Unfortunately, this will all take time and, because we are now in the PL, the opportunity to 'blood' someone will be less than if we were in a lower league.

Believe me, I have followed the Clarets since 1952 and saw all those players you have listed going through their development, however, the football world has changed dramatically. I would love to see lads coming through as in the past, however, it is not just Burnley that have had problems.