Youth set up

[Supersub6]

You are living in a bygone era and you know nothing about the team that played today and I can't be bothered going over the reasons when nothing which has been said already has not gone in.
If you are involved with any youth football in any area of the country you would know the problems and there is no easy fix when Chelsea can pay 11 players in an Under 21 team in the Checkatrade Trophy an average of £93,000 per week.

[oldcolner]

As one earwig said to another Earwigo again

[lancaster100]

You are living in a bygone era and you know nothing about the team that played today and I can't be bothered going over the reasons when nothing which has been said already has not gone in.
If you are involved with any youth football in any area of the country you would know the problems and there is no easy fix when Chelsea can pay 11 players in an Under 21 team in the Checkatrade Trophy an average of £93,000 per week.

I accept I am comparing a bygone era to now you are right. However, whatever the period the same principles apply. In the first instance you have to have a very good scouting approach, spotting the talent (I accept the big clubs will have first dibs) but one of our advantages is to be able to give better opportunities at a first team place earlier than the other big clubs (if they are good enough they should get their chance). I take your point about the wages but at present whatever we pay is having no impact, so the decision must be to scrap the youths or invest a little more and get better players pushing for first team places. My main issue is that scouts are not finding decent talent (not the best in the world but should be fairly good - look at the first team punching above their weight) so they need to look somewhere else

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Building a really solid youth set up requires time and patience.

It is apparent we are in it for the long game.

Results are not important, game time and development of individuals is.

I am by no means certain that the likes of a 16 or 17 year old Dave Thomas, Steve Kindon, Willie Morgan et al would have any chance whatsoever of breaking into any current EPL team.

Have some patience Lancaster100, we can afford the expenditure.

[lancaster100]

Right Supersub6 you may be right that I am living in a bygone era but over many years the stats don't lie. Looking at the list I have come up with it looks like if you are not getting in the first team by 19 you will not be making the grade. This is my list with age of first game:
Through the Youth System Age
Jimmy Adamson 22
Jock Aird 22
John Angus 18
Adam Blacklaw 19
Ralph Coates 18
John Connelly 18
Tommy Cummings 19
Brian Flynn 19
Ray Hankin 17
Gordon Harris 18
Billy Ingam 17
Willie Irvine 19
Leighton James 17
Steve Kindon 18
Brian Laws 18
Andy Lochhead 19
Colin McDonald 18
Brian Miller 18
Willie Morgan 16
Brian O'Neil 18
Vince Overson 17
Mike Phelan 17
Brian Pilkington 18
Ray Pointer 21
Jimmy Robson 17
Jay Rodriguez 18
Derek Scott 16
Fred Smith 21
John Talbut 17
Dave Thomas 16
Lee Dixon 18
Trevor Steven 17

There are probably more but what this says to me is if we have players above 21 and they are not knocking on the door then they will not be good enough so get rid and then kick the scouts up the ....... and tell them this is the list they are being compared to the scouts need to do there job better

[Supersub6]

Right Supersub6 you may be right that I am living in a bygone era but over many years the stats don't lie. Looking at the list I have come up with it looks like if you are not getting in the first team by 19 you will not be making the grade. This is my list with age of first game:
Through the Youth System Age
Jimmy Adamson 22
Jock Aird 22
John Angus 18
Adam Blacklaw 19
Ralph Coates 18
John Connelly 18
Tommy Cummings 19
Brian Flynn 19
Ray Hankin 17
Gordon Harris 18
Billy Ingam 17
Willie Irvine 19
Leighton James 17
Steve Kindon 18
Brian Laws 18
Andy Lochhead 19
Colin McDonald 18
Brian Miller 18
Willie Morgan 16
Brian O'Neil 18
Vince Overson 17
Mike Phelan 17
Brian Pilkington 18
Ray Pointer 21
Jimmy Robson 17
Jay Rodriguez 18
Derek Scott 16
Fred Smith 21
John Talbut 17
Dave Thomas 16
Lee Dixon 18
Trevor Steven 17

There are probably more but what this says to me is if we have players above 21 and they are not knocking on the door then they will not be good enough so get rid and then kick the scouts up the ....... and tell them this is the list they are being compared to the scouts need to do there job better

As I said --you are living in a different era as far as football is concerned. There were lots of lads around who really wanted to play football and were playing in local leagues before they ever got to the Turf.
Nowadays, because Academies are taking kids as young as 6 or 7 years old there are too many thrown on the scrap heap by the time they are 15 years old and they just lose interest.
We used to have leagues up here in the north east with 12 divisions of 12 teams in Newcastle as well as various other local leagues with three divisions of 14+ teams.
We now have approximately one third of the number of leagues and probably only one quarter the number of players actually playing at a reasonable level and developing. This is prevalent throughout the country if you talk to other people who are involved in the game.

As I said before, there were mega problems at Burnley until just recently and a lot of scouts just packed in, therefore, the whole system has to be rebuilt and this is what is happening. Unfortunately, this will all take time and, because we are now in the PL, the opportunity to 'blood' someone will be less than if we were in a lower league.

Believe me, I have followed the Clarets since 1952 and saw all those players you have listed going through their development, however, the football world has changed dramatically. I would love to see lads coming through as in the past, however, it is not just Burnley that have had problems.

[lancaster100]

As I said --you are living in a different era as far as football is concerned. There were lots of lads around who really wanted to play football and were playing in local leagues before they ever got to the Turf.
Nowadays, because Academies are taking kids as young as 6 or 7 years old there are too many thrown on the scrap heap by the time they are 15 years old and they just lose interest.
We used to have leagues up here in the north east with 12 divisions of 12 teams in Newcastle as well as various other local leagues with three divisions of 14+ teams.
We now have approximately one third of the number of leagues and probably only one quarter the number of players actually playing at a reasonable level and developing. This is prevalent throughout the country if you talk to other people who are involved in the game.

As I said before, there were mega problems at Burnley until just recently and a lot of scouts just packed in, therefore, the whole system has to be rebuilt and this is what is happening. Unfortunately, this will all take time and, because we are now in the PL, the opportunity to 'blood' someone will be less than if we were in a lower league.

Believe me, I have followed the Clarets since 1952 and saw all those players you have listed going through their development, however, the football world has changed dramatically. I would love to see lads coming through as in the past, however, it is not just Burnley that have had problems.

Subersub6 as I have said previously I agree with most of your comments, like me I also have watched the clarets for many years. However, I suppose I would have to say that our scouting set up must be pretty poor and looking in the wrong places. In fact you would think that there might be more British talent knocking about because many of the bigger teams are bringing in more youngsters rom abroad. The one thing I am not having is we cannot scout players, like the ones in my list, around the UK. Clearly we might not get the real outstanding ones as they might be picked up by the bigger clubs but many on my list were not considered really outstanding but it was when they arrived at BFC the coaching they got meant they were all well schooled and could have gone on to greater things. I am of the opinion that there are players out there that have not been picked up who have the potential to achieve the same as those on my list. So for me it is about scouting, being able to school them appropriately in order to tease out there ability, but also give them early opportunities (better than the big clubs) to stake their claims into the first team. If we don't do those three things then our youth set up will never achieve. And although the league structures have diminished it does not follow that the players are not there. May be it is time to establish who are the best scouts and pay them to spot the talent for our club (remember Jack Hixon who scouted for us and others) we need the best scouts to find the best talent.

[Supersub6]

Subersub6 as I have said previously I agree with most of your comments, like me I also have watched the clarets for many years. However, I suppose I would have to say that our scouting set up must be pretty poor and looking in the wrong places. In fact you would think that there might be more British talent knocking about because many of the bigger teams are bringing in more youngsters rom abroad. The one thing I am not having is we cannot scout players, like the ones in my list, around the UK. Clearly we might not get the real outstanding ones as they might be picked up by the bigger clubs but many on my list were not considered really outstanding but it was when they arrived at BFC the coaching they got meant they were all well schooled and could have gone on to greater things. I am of the opinion that there are players out there that have not been picked up who have the potential to achieve the same as those on my list. So for me it is about scouting, being able to school them appropriately in order to tease out there ability, but also give them early opportunities (better than the big clubs) to stake their claims into the first team. If we don't do those three things then our youth set up will never achieve. And although the league structures have diminished it does not follow that the players are not there. May be it is time to establish who are the best scouts and pay them to spot the talent for our club (remember Jack Hixon who scouted for us and others) we need the best scouts to find the best talent.

Jack Hixon R.I.P. would be struggling up here these days because he used to scout around the local schools and leagues. The schools, apart from a few, hardly play any football and, as I explained, there are nowhere near the number of leagues, therefore, nowhere near the number of talented footballers. South East Northumberland Schools team provided quite a number of those Burnley players you listed and a few played in the same team!