OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

[Trickytreesreds]

Christ that was intelligent by your standards

still waiting for your solution.

Are we going back to work, or sitting inside for another 6 months?
Easy to sit there being sarcastic and critical. Whose paying for it by the way

[ramAnag]

Hmmm...just when I thought we were ‘all in this together’ there seems to be another outbreak of divisiveness and teacher/union bashing.

It’s all very well for those who have been furloughed or those who never have to leave their ‘home office’ or be in face to face contact with ‘clients’ to suddenly be critical of those who have concerns about their own safety and the safety of their ‘charges’, let us however consider a couple of things.

It is the purpose of Unions to look after the health and well being of their members. They can hardly be criticised when that is what they do.

Perhaps when MP’s show some inclination to return ‘en masse’ to the House of Commons, when pro-footballers are able to train together, when theatres, cinemas and pubs reopen, when people on here have stopped wittering about the dangers of shopping and when Derby’s B&Q store doesn’t have to close because a staff member tested positive for Covid-19, then those who work and have children in our schools will feel more confident about them reopening.

[mistaram]

still waiting for your solution.

Are we going back to work, or sitting inside for another 6 months?
Easy to sit there being sarcastic and critical. Whose paying for it by the way

You won't be paying for it that's for sure At least I'm contributing . Proving you wrong is neither sarcastic or critical Scrap HS2 there's £100billion saved Are we going back to work! Well what we should do is recall all the MPs let them sit for two weeks . If they are all clear after that then we can get back to work Much better than experimenting with children Unlike you the government scientists and medics obviously don't think it's right time yet or they wouldn't have extended the furlough It seems to me it's getting right up your nose working class being paid for stopping at home

[Ram59]

Hmmm...just when I thought we were ‘all in this together’ there seems to be another outbreak of divisiveness and teacher/union bashing.

It’s all very well for those who have been furloughed or those who never have to leave their ‘home office’ or be in face to face contact with ‘clients’ to suddenly be critical of those who have concerns about their own safety and the safety of their ‘charges’, let us however consider a couple of things.

It is the purpose of Unions to look after the health and well being of their members. They can hardly be criticised when that is what they do.

Perhaps when MP’s show some inclination to return ‘en masse’ to the House of Commons, when pro-footballers are able to train together, when theatres, cinemas and pubs reopen, when people on here have stopped wittering about the dangers of shopping and when Derby’s B&Q store doesn’t have to close because a staff member tested positive for Covid-19, then those who work and have children in our schools will feel more confident about them reopening.

On that basis, no shop workers, bus drivers, policeman, fire fighters, ambulance drivers, car workers, building workers, etc, etc, should go to work tomorrow, because they're safety can't be guaranteed.

The country has to start getting back to normal and we all have to take some kind of risk, some more than others.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry rA but why are teachers exempt from working in their front line roles on safety grounds due to contact with children (evidently low risk transmitters) whereas its OK for NHS, emergency services, shop workers, transport workers and many more to have to work when exposed to adults who seemingly are greater risk transmitters.

It wasn't long ago that you were saying that teachers were front line key workers. If that's so, they should step up to the plate and demonstrate that you were right in that assessment. You can't be a front line key worker sat at home iin front of a computer - although if you can then Im a front line key worker too.

I fully appreciate that it's easy for me to say as I can work from home and remain shielded, as a clinically vulnerable member of a group which has "contributed" 1 in 4 covid deaths. But we cannot just sit on our arses and wait for armageddon.

What if the armed forces had taken this view in previous conflicts and said they thought it was a bit risky to land on those Normandy beaches?

Finally suggesting the MPs go first is pathetic. Childshly daring a more vulnerable group to prove its safe for a less risky group is unworthy.

And to your other point about why shut the schools down in the first place then if its so safe? Simply because less was known about the nature of the virus 7 weeks ago I reckon.

I may be wrong, it may be a disaster to reopen, but the empirical evidence to hand now points to it being less risky, and two weeks more of the European experience may add more weight to that risk assessment - or may blow it out of the water.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Great shout, scrap HS2 for sure. After all the entire future of public transport is now hanging in balance with social distancing meaning a complete rethink. Even more reason to scrap a plan to let people get to Birmingham 20 minutes quicker, or, more likely, to allow more people to commute to London from further away to attend their white elephant central London offices that are no longer in use due to it dawning on employers that home working is here to stay

[ramAnag]

On that basis, no shop workers, bus drivers, policeman, fire fighters, ambulance drivers, car workers, building workers, etc, etc, should go to work tomorrow, because they're safety can't be guaranteed.

The country has to start getting back to normal and we all have to take some kind of risk, some more than others.

...and on the basis of what you seem to be suggesting, we should all just go back to normal and wonder why schools and other places where people gather were shut in the first place.

I have to be honest and say I’m taking minimal risks, haven’t even been within two metres of my own grandchildren - as the rules suggest - since mid March. Out of interest what ‘risks’ are you taking that compare with sharing a room with six**** other people for a long period of time on a daily basis?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Speaking personally Im probably taking the same risks as you are at the moment, rA, other than maybe doing more frequent shopping than you, as you are, I believe possessed of a car and hence can stock up with more per visit.

My question (and I suspect yours too) is, is Mac's one persistently coughing woman in a shop more or less of a risk than 16 children in a room?. Evidence suggests that children are minimal to low risk, which seems to be this and a few other countries' stance on the matter. Which I guess is where you are coming at it from - you dont believe anything the government says, so you wont accept their risk assessment.

[ramAnag]

Sorry rA but why are teachers exempt from working in their front line roles on safety grounds due to contact with children (evidently low risk transmitters) whereas its OK for NHS, emergency services, shop workers, transport workers and many more to have to work when exposed to adults who seemingly are greater risk transmitters.

It wasn't long ago that you were saying that teachers were front line key workers. If that's so, they should step up to the plate and demonstrate that you were right in that assessment. You can't be a front line key worker sat at home iin front of a computer - although if you can then Im a front line key worker too.

I fully appreciate that it's easy for me to say as I can work from home and remain shielded, as a clinically vulnerable member of a group which has "contributed" 1 in 4 covid deaths. But we cannot just sit on our arses and wait for armageddon.

What if the armed forces had taken this view in previous conflicts and said they thought it was a bit risky to land on those Normandy beaches?

Finally suggesting the MPs go first is pathetic. Childshly daring a more vulnerable group to prove its safe for a less risky group is unworthy.

And to your other point about why shut the schools down in the first place then if its so safe? Simply because less was known about the nature of the virus 7 weeks ago I reckon.

I may be wrong, it may be a disaster to reopen, but the empirical evidence to hand now points to it being less risky, and two weeks more of the European experience may add more weight to that risk assessment - or may blow it out of the water.

GP, you do seem to be being truly obtuse on this one.

1) Where have I said teachers are ‘exempt’?
2) Teachers were in the ‘frontline’ when I said that because the schools were still open.
3) Some teachers have remained in the ‘frontline’ some of the time since taking responsibility for ‘vulnerable’ children and the children of key workers.
4) You make a fair point about your condition but you know full well that I was referring to your occupation not your underlying health condition. If you now seek to make debating ‘capital’ from it I suggest you stay away from that corner shop.
5) Comparing this situation with the armed forces or wartime is utter nonsense and you know it.
6) I haven’t suggested MP’s need to ‘go first’. I’ve suggested it’s very difficult to take advice about working in close proximity with others from a group of individuals who won’t work in close proximity to each other themselves.
7) Yes...seven weeks ago there hadn’t been 35,000 deaths in this country caused by a virus we appear to be receiving ever more contradictory advice about every day.
8) Indeed...you ‘may be wrong’...just as the government was about care homes...but it’ll be too bloody late then won’t it?

For the record.
1) Only a minority of pupils are going to be able to return for a limited period of time. That is just a fact.
2) Parents feel just as strongly about this as people who work in schools and many will not send their kids back to school yet.
3) You’re a mathematician...consider how much the risk of a second spike increases with each class of 15/17 going home each day to mix with other family members before returning to school the next day.
4) As I have said before, I am not suggesting teachers should not under any circumstances return to work, but...they do need effective PPE - as probably do the children - and as the return is inevitably going to be partial for the rest of this academic year...why not wait and learn from what happens in Germany and Holland?

[Trickytreesreds]

You won't be paying for it that's for sure At least I'm contributing . Proving you wrong is neither sarcastic or critical Scrap HS2 there's £100billion saved Are we going back to work! Well what we should do is recall all the MPs let them sit for two weeks . If they are all clear after that then we can get back to work Much better than experimenting with children Unlike you the government scientists and medics obviously don't think it's right time yet or they wouldn't have extended the furlough It seems to me it's getting right up your nose working class being paid for stopping at home

1. I am paying for it smarty pants. Where do you think my money comes from?
2. HS2? Couldn't agree more. Why anyone would want to get to that **** hole quicker, is beyond me.
3. MP's ? Halleluyah, keep singing it brother, gets my vote.
4. Getting right up my nose, working class people getting paid at home? Exactly who do you think is going to pay for this?
5. You seem to forget, we have an army of front line workers already. No one is insisting they stay at home, or is it bugger their safety?
Have you seen the job figures going into free fall?
Marvellous, stay at home then everyone. We'll all be going to Romania for handouts at this rate.