O/T Well it looks like White Lives don't matter.

[animallittle3]

Roly wants this country to make amends for our past, why should we? Why should we pay for this countries past history. Get over it and move on.

You have the history your betters selected for you , royalty , colonialism and imperialists .

You don't hear so much about Peterloo , the 1926 strike and working class social struggles .

[great_fire]

Are the Championship teams also kneeling?

Even Millwall?

[WanChaiMiller]

She has a point (I think her name is Priyamvada Gopal). Her comment gets to the very heart of the matter in my opinion - which is why I posted it.* I made a similar comment in a couple of my earlier posts.

White European Colonial Privilege has endured worldwide the past 300 to 400 years. Global structures are in place geared to maintain an economic stranglehold and to keep black, Asian and white working class kids in their place; all to serve post Imperial economies.* China is posing the first real threat to that World order and why it's the modern day villian (Trump has used the pandemic strategically as a counter punch by fixing the blame on China).

Britain is the largest, most recent Military Imperial force. It left its mark on the world. Many Colonial influences still exist; problems of racial segregation and mass transportation are yet to be resolved. The process to independence and building national wealth is restricted (the majority living in former colonies have not benefitted from first world privilege).

I see it as sustemic economic and cultural oppression over centuries.

It's not about seeing things in terms of induvidual racist behaviour. Racist behaviour is largely irrelevant. By and large people in the UK are tolorant. There is huge resentment with being labelled by association. My point is that by alligning the debate through your own individual attitude misses the starting point - the start point is at national and global level.

In that sense I believe Gopal is spot on when she says "White lives don't matter. As white lives. Abolish whiteness. When I talk about abolishing whiteness, I talk about political practices and ideologies. Systems of oppression, whether white or brown, should be abolished. It's about abolishing a race hierarchy where whites are at the top."

She is talking about creating a fair society rather than wiping out the white race.*

BLM have a point. Although my feeling is that the majority of demonstrators dont even realise what it is they are against. What has happened in the last few weeks is wrong and, tactically, will prove to have been counter productive.* Black recounting stories of being called racist names have missed the point and is largely irrelevant.

I think Gopal actually nails the start point and where we should be having the debate.*

[WanChaiMiller]

What would she be talking about if she was talking about abolishing blackness??

I guess if someone said that you would be screaming that they were a racist or "extreme" right wing.

Given what I said above. If blacks had held the upper hand for 3 centuries I think anyone would have every right to ask for it to be abolished. Dont you?

[great_fire]

Doesn't seem like white people have the upper hand in this country.

The only institutionalised racism seems to be again white people.

All our institutions are left-wing and the left are criticising them for being "institutionally racist"?

It's an attempted Marxist coup using race as a cover to avoid criticism.

Dismantling capitalism, abolishing the police, closing prisons and "disrupting the Western nuclear family" are all Marxist policies, don't know how anyone can say otherwise.

[ragingpup]

Doesn't seem like white people have the upper hand in this country.

The only institutionalised racism seems to be again white people.

All our institutions are left-wing and the left are criticising them for being "institutionally racist"?

It's an attempted Marxist coup using race as a cover to avoid criticism.

Dismantling capitalism, abolishing the police, closing prisons and "disrupting the Western nuclear family" are all Marxist policies, don't know how anyone can say otherwise.

It may not feel that way but if you look at the statistics in the EHR Report from 2018 it found:

Employment
-unemployment rates were significantly higher for ethnic minorities at 12.9 per cent compared with 6.3 per cent for White people
-Black workers with degrees earn 23.1 per cent less on average than White workers
-in Britain, significantly lower percentages of ethnic minorities (8.8 per cent) worked as managers, directors and senior officials, compared -with White people (10.7 per cent) and this was particularly true for African or Caribbean or Black people (5.7 per cent) and those of mixed ethnicity (7.2 per cent)
-Black people who leave school with A-levels typically get paid 14.3 per cent less than their White peers

Education
-just 6 per cent of Black school leavers attended a Russell Group university, compared with 12 per cent of mixed and Asian school leavers and 11 per cent of White school leavers
-Black Caribbean and Mixed White/Black Caribbean children have rates of permanent exclusion about three times that of the pupil population as a whole

Crime
-rates of prosecution and sentencing for Black people were three times higher than for White people,18 per thousand population compared with six per thousand population for White people
-for sentencing it was 13 per thousand population for Black people and five per thousand population for White people
-in England and Wales ethnic minority children and adults are more likely to be a victim of homicide
-the homicide rate for Black people was 30.5 per million population, 14.1 for Asian people and 8.9 for White people
-White women are more at risk of domestic abuse than ethnic minority women, with 7.4 per cent reported being victims of abuse compared with 4.4 per cent of ethnic minority women
-race hate crimes on Britain’s railway networks have risen by 37 per cent
-in England, 37.4 per cent of Black people and 44.8 per cent of Asian people felt unsafe being at home or around their local area, compared with 29.2 per cent of White people

Living standards
-Pakistani or Bangladeshi and Black adults are more likely to live in substandard accommodation than White people
30.9 per cent of Pakistani or Bangladeshi people live in overcrowded accommodation, while for Black people the figure is 26.8 per cent and -for White people it is 8.3 per cent
-if you are an ethnic minority person, you are still more likely to live in poverty. Our evidence shows that 35.7 per cent of ethnic minorities were more likely to live in poverty compared with 17.2 per cent of White people
-in Scotland, ethnic minority households are more likely to experience overcrowding, with 11.8 per cent for ethnic minority households compared with 2.9 per cent for White households

Health and care
-Black African women had a mortality rate four times higher than White women in the UK
there is a significant disproportionate number of ethnic minorities detained under mental health legislation in hospitals in England and Wales
-Black African women were seven times more likely to be detained than White British women

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Spain, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, France and Belgium all had colonial territories most of them put nothing back into the countries they occupied ( often very brutally) at least we built some infrastructure (some still survives today) but I can't see them apologising for anything.

I fact many US black soldiers died in Vietnam as a legacy of the mayhem France caused there.

Atrocities in the former Belgian Congo were eye watering.

Spain and Portugal had their conquistadors who basically raped and pillaged. Seville still has the slave market as a tourist attraction.

Germany and the Netherlands similarly looted large areas of Africa

But the apologising for history and making amends seems to be just a job for us

[great_fire]

"Black Lives Matter" is off the back of the EPL shirts now (but still on the sleeve) but the teams are still kneeling, they're all too scared to be the first player not to kneel.

[rolymiller]

It may not feel that way but if you look at the statistics in the EHR Report from 2018 it found:

Employment
-unemployment rates were significantly higher for ethnic minorities at 12.9 per cent compared with 6.3 per cent for White people
-Black workers with degrees earn 23.1 per cent less on average than White workers
-in Britain, significantly lower percentages of ethnic minorities (8.8 per cent) worked as managers, directors and senior officials, compared -with White people (10.7 per cent) and this was particularly true for African or Caribbean or Black people (5.7 per cent) and those of mixed ethnicity (7.2 per cent)
-Black people who leave school with A-levels typically get paid 14.3 per cent less than their White peers

Education
-just 6 per cent of Black school leavers attended a Russell Group university, compared with 12 per cent of mixed and Asian school leavers and 11 per cent of White school leavers
-Black Caribbean and Mixed White/Black Caribbean children have rates of permanent exclusion about three times that of the pupil population as a whole

Crime
-rates of prosecution and sentencing for Black people were three times higher than for White people,18 per thousand population compared with six per thousand population for White people
-for sentencing it was 13 per thousand population for Black people and five per thousand population for White people
-in England and Wales ethnic minority children and adults are more likely to be a victim of homicide
-the homicide rate for Black people was 30.5 per million population, 14.1 for Asian people and 8.9 for White people
-White women are more at risk of domestic abuse than ethnic minority women, with 7.4 per cent reported being victims of abuse compared with 4.4 per cent of ethnic minority women
-race hate crimes on Britain’s railway networks have risen by 37 per cent
-in England, 37.4 per cent of Black people and 44.8 per cent of Asian people felt unsafe being at home or around their local area, compared with 29.2 per cent of White people

Living standards
-Pakistani or Bangladeshi and Black adults are more likely to live in substandard accommodation than White people
30.9 per cent of Pakistani or Bangladeshi people live in overcrowded accommodation, while for Black people the figure is 26.8 per cent and -for White people it is 8.3 per cent
-if you are an ethnic minority person, you are still more likely to live in poverty. Our evidence shows that 35.7 per cent of ethnic minorities were more likely to live in poverty compared with 17.2 per cent of White people
-in Scotland, ethnic minority households are more likely to experience overcrowding, with 11.8 per cent for ethnic minority households compared with 2.9 per cent for White households

Health and care
-Black African women had a mortality rate four times higher than White women in the UK
there is a significant disproportionate number of ethnic minorities detained under mental health legislation in hospitals in England and Wales
-Black African women were seven times more likely to be detained than White British women

Good well researched points as ever Pup. It is strange how the right wingers on this site never actually have any factual evidence to back up their spurious claims. (Oh hang on. i have it wrong, gfire has his crackpot extreme right wing conspiracist american web sites to back his views up). The rest of them have their views based on stuff they have heard down the pub or read in the Sun and mail which is the equivalent of that. In other words many right wingers on here make a lot up using no factual evidence whatsoever for their claims to back them up and expect you to believe what they say unquestioningly.

I say most of their ignorance of political and social issues is down to the fact that they are not educated enough in political and sociological matters or more disturbingly choose to want to ignore the truth about these matters because it doesn't suit their world view.

I have no issue with those who don't know enough about such matters if they aint read up on it. In which case why not just say i can't really comment on these matters one way or the other cos i don't know enough about it. It would be interesting to know how qualified some are on here to discuss these sort of matters. I suspect not very many

[great_fire]

It may not feel that way but if you look at the statistics in the EHR Report from 2018 it found:

Employment
-unemployment rates were significantly higher for ethnic minorities at 12.9 per cent compared with 6.3 per cent for White people
-Black workers with degrees earn 23.1 per cent less on average than White workers
-in Britain, significantly lower percentages of ethnic minorities (8.8 per cent) worked as managers, directors and senior officials, compared -with White people (10.7 per cent) and this was particularly true for African or Caribbean or Black people (5.7 per cent) and those of mixed ethnicity (7.2 per cent)
-Black people who leave school with A-levels typically get paid 14.3 per cent less than their White peers

Education
-just 6 per cent of Black school leavers attended a Russell Group university, compared with 12 per cent of mixed and Asian school leavers and 11 per cent of White school leavers
-Black Caribbean and Mixed White/Black Caribbean children have rates of permanent exclusion about three times that of the pupil population as a whole

Crime
-rates of prosecution and sentencing for Black people were three times higher than for White people,18 per thousand population compared with six per thousand population for White people
-for sentencing it was 13 per thousand population for Black people and five per thousand population for White people
-in England and Wales ethnic minority children and adults are more likely to be a victim of homicide
-the homicide rate for Black people was 30.5 per million population, 14.1 for Asian people and 8.9 for White people
-White women are more at risk of domestic abuse than ethnic minority women, with 7.4 per cent reported being victims of abuse compared with 4.4 per cent of ethnic minority women
-race hate crimes on Britain’s railway networks have risen by 37 per cent
-in England, 37.4 per cent of Black people and 44.8 per cent of Asian people felt unsafe being at home or around their local area, compared with 29.2 per cent of White people

Living standards
-Pakistani or Bangladeshi and Black adults are more likely to live in substandard accommodation than White people
30.9 per cent of Pakistani or Bangladeshi people live in overcrowded accommodation, while for Black people the figure is 26.8 per cent and -for White people it is 8.3 per cent
-if you are an ethnic minority person, you are still more likely to live in poverty. Our evidence shows that 35.7 per cent of ethnic minorities were more likely to live in poverty compared with 17.2 per cent of White people
-in Scotland, ethnic minority households are more likely to experience overcrowding, with 11.8 per cent for ethnic minority households compared with 2.9 per cent for White households

Health and care
-Black African women had a mortality rate four times higher than White women in the UK
there is a significant disproportionate number of ethnic minorities detained under mental health legislation in hospitals in England and Wales
-Black African women were seven times more likely to be detained than White British women

It's easy to be selective with stats.

Do you think that the reason black households are poorer than white ones might have something to do with there being more single parent households than white people have?

Two incomes usually being higher than one.

Therefore how is BLM UK wanting to destroy nuclear families going to help?