The Wokeness Thread

[swaledale]

The term woke, as defined elsewhere here and on more trusted places on the internet, original meant roughly as you suggest, and nowt wrong with people who are 'woke' in that manner. Just nice, kind, thoughtful folk youmight say

However, the term was initially hijacked by those who combined their view on social justice with an uncompromising, often unpleasant and mob mentalty response to anyone with a different view. As a response to that, the term was gradually takenover by those who DID have a different view, be it considered, extreme or nuanced and has developed from a complimentary to derogatory term. The majority of 'woke' ideology comes from what you would call 'the left'. The equivalent from the right is just referred to I guess as 'extremist'

The phrase 'overwoking' was invented by me just for Swales' benefit - despite his protestations to the contrary his wokeness let him down when he assumed, and made an issue of, a comment about crossdressing. His repeated and lengthy attempts to clarify show his sensitivity to being rumbled but in other settings (ie facebook/twitter) there could have been a cast of thousands of 'the Woke' baying for blood of the O/P of the comment.

Well in truth, woke was hijacked by the right and those who rather like yourself moan about "political correctness" going too far and other such phrases, or indeed you as a white aging male moaning (as you frequently have done) about the supposed "over representation of persons of an ethnic background in the media - justified by you saying "Its not the world I know". Which from the inability to recognise that there is another world out there, is clearly true, but also demonstrates your very narrow and somewhat bigoted perspective. Still you do apparently have broadly non racist friends, so thats fine then.

Its been used as pejorative term by far right commentators and continued as such, it wasn't the left that did this, just the right who erroneously put a lot of dissimilar issues under one banner for the purposes of slagging off people who have a social conscience. I mean obviously the only people who go along with such rubbish are half wits.

There is no such thing as "woke" ideology! Are you not bright enough to have worked that out? I mean I thought you claimed to be a reasonably sentient person who doesn't swallow (aka Thicky) the bull**** pushed out by right wing commentators, but obviously that isn't the case.

Your English is rather poor for a native, though I do find that's the case with those of the gammon persuasion, usually when they are slagging off immigrants who speak it better than themselves. Not that you'd do that, no your more subtle, always keeping your prejudice just at an acceptable level - I actually have more respect for Thicky who is at last an open xenophobic, racist, bigot!

So there are no such words as overwoking, wokeness, but like a lot of what you present as "facts" they were made up by you. How credible do you think you are when you post such tosh? By the way nice to think of my benefit, but as most of what you post just makes me laugh, perhaps best not to eh son?

I didn't assume anything, I interpreted, as you did, correctly what GP had posted. In the spirit of being helpful I pointed out that what he had posted wasn't strictly true and also that maybe the player wouldn't give ****!

You then accused me of being over woke!! I mean if being woke is about pointing out where the facts don't quite fit with what has just been said then fair enough guilty as charged m'lord!

Then GP denied that his post meant that - I then asked for clarification as it seemed a perfectly good interpretation to me. GP hasn't responded, presumably because actually his post did mean that, but he was miffed that his little bit of banter had been corrected.

At no point, then or now was I being over sensitive, I just thought it funny to point out that GP's post wasn't necessarily correct. Who would ahve guessed that the two immature people sniggering about a joke on cross dressing would get tetchy about being advised it wasn't strictly correct?

**** knows why you got involved again, but I guess you had to try and use words you clearly don't understand, but had heard from somewhere in an attempt to look clever.

So that went well then!

[ramAnag]

The term woke, as defined elsewhere here and on more trusted places on the internet, original meant roughly as you suggest, and nowt wrong with people who are 'woke' in that manner. Just nice, kind, thoughtful folk youmight say
The majority of 'woke' ideology comes from what you would call 'the left.

The phrase 'overwoking' was invented by me just for Swales' benefit - despite his protestations to the contrary his wokeness let him down when he assumed, and made an issue of, a comment about crossdressing. His repeated and lengthy attempts to clarify show his sensitivity to being rumbled but in other settings (ie facebook/twitter) there could have been a cast of thousands of 'the Woke' baying for blood of the O/P of the comment.

If that second paragraph is genuinely what you think and not just your self justifying rationalisation I think you need to revisit what was written.

My take is...I wrote something on a football thread that was entirely football related...GP made a slightly silly remark about cross dressers based on the Brighton connection...Swale provided a point of information...and then you, as you are increasingly prone to do these days, jumped in looking to do some *hit stirring, because it was Swale. There was no ‘baying for blood’ at all and now we have a thread all about ‘woke’.

As regards the majority of woke ideology coming from the ‘left’. Well of course it does. It seems to be about social conscience...and the ‘Right’ doesn’t have one.

[MadAmster]

Fairness. I like that. Female sporters disagreed with Trans women partaking in female sport as they had had years of benefit from male levels of testosterone helping them to create muscle mass and greater bone density. The first ruling bodies have now decided that Trans women may compete in a new "open" class. Sounds fair enough, however, if it truly is "open" then male and female athletes could also compete in that class. Wouldn't it be fairer to create 2 new classes. One for trans women and one for Trans men? That way everybody would have an event in which they could compete against "equals".

It might be me just not having seen it but I believe there has been a lack of attention given to Trans men in this entire debate. Might this be that the only people put in a disadvantaged position are Trans men themselves?

[Trickytreesreds]

Fairness. I like that. Female sporters disagreed with Trans women partaking in female sport as they had had years of benefit from male levels of testosterone helping them to create muscle mass and greater bone density. The first ruling bodies have now decided that Trans women may compete in a new "open" class. Sounds fair enough, however, if it truly is "open" then male and female athletes could also compete in that class. Wouldn't it be fairer to create 2 new classes. One for trans women and one for Trans men? That way everybody would have an event in which they could compete against "equals".

It might be me just not having seen it but I believe there has been a lack of attention given to Trans men in this entire debate. Might this be that the only people put in a disadvantaged position are Trans men themselves?

Trans mens fights for the equality they seek, is at the expense of natural females rights and positions.
That is grossly unfair on the natural gendas

[Ramshank72]

...Your English is rather poor for a native, though I do find that's the case with those of the gammon persuasion ... your more subtle

It's "you're" if you're abbreviating "you are", you make that mistake all the time. Just thought you should know

(This is meant light heartedly before anyone gets upset)

[Trickytreesreds]

the crux of the debate about trans and woke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5ieIpml-M

[MadAmster]

Trans mens fights for the equality they seek, is at the expense of natural females rights and positions.
That is grossly unfair on the natural gendas

Trans women are those born as men who transition to being a woman.

Trans men were born a woman and transition to being a man.

Apart from your mixing up of the two, I agree with you and it's why sports are now creating open events for trans women. Now for Trans men's events as well.

[swaledale]

It's "you're" if you're abbreviating "you are", you make that mistake all the time. Just thought you should know

(This is meant light heartedly before anyone gets upset)

Fair enough Guv! Its not a question of mistake, more how it comes out when typing, sometimes I can be arsed to corect other times I just don't bother.

[swaledale]

Trans women are those born as men who transition to being a woman.

Trans men were born a woman and transition to being a man.

Apart from your mixing up of the two, I agree with you and it's why sports are now creating open events for trans women. Now for Trans men's events as well.

The whole issue of transgender is very complicated and unfortunately events have overtaken those that administer sport, which to be frank is often the way with other things as well.

But my take is that it needs a proper discussion, the evidence assessed and a way forward agreed with all concerned. It certainly seems unfair that the swimmer who was ****e as a man, 400 in the world or something, could suddenly become a top women swimmer.

What I do find odd and unacceptable is that a man or a woman for that matter can just self declare that they are a different gender. I mean i can call myself a wombat but that doesn't mean i am one!

But ignoring the situation and moaning about woke ideology isn't a solution and isn't any way of manging the situation.

[Geoff Parkstone]

How do you manage to pooh in cubes to retain the illusion, Swale?