The run in

[ramAnag]

Its not a case of disagreeing that Clowes being a "newbie" is irrelevant, its a fact as evidence of others who own football clubs and are what you term "newbies" demonstrates. The owner, provides the funds and runs the business side of matters, their experience of owning a football club is irrelevant.

I could list several examples which shows this to be the case. But lets take Mel Morris, he was "newbie" but achieved success if measured by league position and the fact he got the club to a play off final!

Or lets take the middle eastern owners of Man City, how much experience did they have of owning a football club? None, they had the finance and employed people with the requisite knowledge and experience of football management and player recruitment etc.

Furthermore, it hasn't been Clowes lack of experience of owning Derby that has been the issue, its been the fact that he had to rebuild the club out of administration, with the added restriction of EFL controls on transfers and wages for the first two seasons.

Clowes may well have learned more about running the club, though I suspect his business acumen was fine in any case, but to date I would say its difficult to identify where his judgement has been awry. Yes it is a fact he was a "newbie" owner, though not like some without a knowledge of football even if only a from a fans point of view. But given there are also numerous examples of owners with more experience of owning a football club who haven't achieved what he has in under 3 years, on what evidence do you base your view that his "newbie" status is or has been an issue?

The only people who would criticise Clowes are those fans who have quickly forgotten the base from which he rebuilt the club and who blithely assume that he can just throw money at a problem , whether that be buying players or replacing the manager. Certainly he will have realised that owning a football club like Derby is how to make a small fortune, from the large one he invested!!

This has become a slightly daft argument with someone I agree with more often than not and certainly usually on the Election Year thread, however, here goes?

The term you originally objected to wasn’t ‘newbie’ it was ‘rookie’ which, I accept may have more negative connotations.

Beyond that you should have recognised by now that I have the greatest respect for David Clowes.
That doesn’t however mean that I don’t believe he’s made mistakes, indeed I believed at the time, and continue to believe, that his early days replacement of Rosenior by Warne was one such mistake.
Of course there is no way of proving that, although looking at their relative performances since there can be little doubt as to which of those two managers now (less than three years on) looks destined for greater success at a higher level.

You talk about Clowes’ business acumen but you know at least as well as I do that traditional business acumen has little to do with running a football club which, as you acknowledge, has often been described as ‘the fastest way to make a small fortune…out of a large one!’

You cannot have it both ways however. Clowes isn’t in the mega rich league and has to be more hands on than those super rich owners you speak of. He has earned the plaudits and I am full of respect and admiration, but there have also been mistakes that he will have learned from.

As I understand it, he has handed over much of the day to day running of his main business to his brother while he concentrates on the DCFC side of things. To what extent he wishes to return more full time to his original business and pass the club on into responsible but wealthier ownership I’m not sure, but I do feel certain he will have learned an enormous amount about the pitfalls and duplicity of football club ownership over the last three years and my only point is that this learning curve will only be of benefit to us all as he becomes more experienced and less of a ‘newbie’.