The run in

[ramAnag]

8 games to go in this Championship season, in which John Eustace has rejuvenated a wafer thin squad in his first 6 games in charge. He has built a structure and shape into the team, both with and without the ball and the future looks bright if we can secure Championship survival. The players look like they would run through a brick wall under this manager and with a further 2.5 weeks of coaching I?m optimistic. JE has said multiple times that we take one game at a time, which is a logical approach and keeps the players focused.

Looking at the bottom eleven teams and their fixtures it is interesting to see that 6 of our remaining 8 are against teams in this group, while Portsmouth only have 2, Oxford 3, Luton 3 and Plymouth 2.

Reasons to be cheerful, part 3

I’m more optimistic now than I have been since late October about our chances of survival, MA…but it is by no means a gimme.

Without going over old ground about the previous manager, such was the mess that we found ourselves in by the end of January that it is impossible to believe that JE joined without considering the very real prospect of relegation. To do so would have been unbelievably naive.

In the light of recent results and performances I share your hope and ‘reasons to be cheerful’ but, even if the worst happens and we do go down, I’ll still feel more optimistic about Eustace’s ability to rebuild than was previously the case and the fact that Mr. Clowes will no longer be the ‘newbie’ he was in the world of football club ownership can only help. Both will have been on enormous learning curves over the last three years or so and I think we can only benefit from that.

[MadAmster]

I’m more optimistic now than I have been since late October about our chances of survival, MA…but it is by no means a gimme.

Without going over old ground about the previous manager, such was the mess that we found ourselves in by the end of January that it is impossible to believe that JE joined without considering the very real prospect of relegation. To do so would have been unbelievably naive.

In the light of recent results and performances I share your hope and ‘reasons to be cheerful’ but, even if the worst happens and we do go down, I’ll still feel more optimistic about Eustace’s ability to rebuild than was previously the case and the fact that Mr. Clowes will no longer be the ‘newbie’ he was in the world of football club ownership can only help. Both will have been on enormous learning curves over the last three years or so and I think we can only benefit from that.

Pure conjecture, I know but, shortly after the sacking, there was a list of some quality players we missed out on in the January window, some of whom ended up not changing clubs at all. Bad luck or did those players not fancy Warneball?

[swaledale]

I’m more optimistic now than I have been since late October about our chances of survival, MA…but it is by no means a gimme.

Without going over old ground about the previous manager, such was the mess that we found ourselves in by the end of January that it is impossible to believe that JE joined without considering the very real prospect of relegation. To do so would have been unbelievably naive.

In the light of recent results and performances I share your hope and ‘reasons to be cheerful’ but, even if the worst happens and we do go down, I’ll still feel more optimistic about Eustace’s ability to rebuild than was previously the case and the fact that Mr. Clowes will no longer be the ‘newbie’ he was in the world of football club ownership can only help. Both will have been on enormous learning curves over the last three years or so and I think we can only benefit from that.

Clowes being a "Newbie" is irrelevant, he funds the club and has experienced football people to advise him on football matters. His appointment of Warne as a L1 manager demonstrated that they knew what they were doing. After promotion it was obvious Warne would be given a chance and at first it seemed he might do well. A combination of ill fortune with injuries and unable to recruit in depth hampered him, but ultimately it would seem his one dimensional tactics when under pressure, i.e. set up not to lose rather than go for a win cost him his job.

I know you keep harping on about Clowes as a "newbie", but given there are numerous examples of owners of football clubs knowing very little about owning and running a football club from the football side of things who have been successful, its clear that in depth knowledge of football isn't a pre requisite for success.

[ramAnag]

Clowes being a "Newbie" is irrelevant, he funds the club and has experienced football people to advise him on football matters. His appointment of Warne as a L1 manager demonstrated that they knew what they were doing. After promotion it was obvious Warne would be given a chance and at first it seemed he might do well. A combination of ill fortune with injuries and unable to recruit in depth hampered him, but ultimately it would seem his one dimensional tactics when under pressure, i.e. set up not to lose rather than go for a win cost him his job.

I know you keep harping on about Clowes as a "newbie", but given there are numerous examples of owners of football clubs knowing very little about owning and running a football club from the football side of things who have been successful, its clear that in depth knowledge of football isn't a pre requisite for success.

We disagree that it’s ‘irrelevant’ but so be it.
Either way, that’s what he was and my comment was actually a positive. It is my opinion that Eustace will prove to be a better manager and I know you keep ‘harping on’ about me ‘harping on’ but Clowes was a ‘newbie’ in terms of football club ownership - fact - and he will have learned a great deal over the last three seasons which will, I believe, benefit us.

[swaledale]

We disagree that it?s ?irrelevant? but so be it.
Either way, that?s what he was and my comment was actually a positive. It is my opinion that Eustace will prove to be a better manager and I know you keep ?harping on? about me ?harping on? but Clowes was a ?newbie? in terms of football club ownership - fact - and he will have learned a great deal over the last three seasons which will, I believe, benefit us.

Its not a case of disagreeing that Clowes being a "newbie" is irrelevant, its a fact as evidence of others who own football clubs and are what you term "newbies" demonstrates. The owner, provides the funds and runs the business side of matters, their experience of owning a football club is irrelevant.

I could list several examples which shows this to be the case. But lets take Mel Morris, he was "newbie" but achieved success if measured by league position and the fact he got the club to a play off final!

Or lets take the middle eastern owners of Man City, how much experience did they have of owning a football club? None, they had the finance and employed people with the requisite knowledge and experience of football management and player recruitment etc.

Furthermore, it hasn't been Clowes lack of experience of owning Derby that has been the issue, its been the fact that he had to rebuild the club out of administration, with the added restriction of EFL controls on transfers and wages for the first two seasons.

Clowes may well have learned more about running the club, though I suspect his business acumen was fine in any case, but to date I would say its difficult to identify where his judgement has been awry. Yes it is a fact he was a "newbie" owner, though not like some without a knowledge of football even if only a from a fans point of view. But given there are also numerous examples of owners with more experience of owning a football club who haven't achieved what he has in under 3 years, on what evidence do you base your view that his "newbie" status is or has been an issue?

The only people who would criticise Clowes are those fans who have quickly forgotten the base from which he rebuilt the club and who blithely assume that he can just throw money at a problem , whether that be buying players or replacing the manager. Certainly he will have realised that owning a football club like Derby is how to make a small fortune, from the large one he invested!!

[ramAnag]

Its not a case of disagreeing that Clowes being a "newbie" is irrelevant, its a fact as evidence of others who own football clubs and are what you term "newbies" demonstrates. The owner, provides the funds and runs the business side of matters, their experience of owning a football club is irrelevant.

I could list several examples which shows this to be the case. But lets take Mel Morris, he was "newbie" but achieved success if measured by league position and the fact he got the club to a play off final!

Or lets take the middle eastern owners of Man City, how much experience did they have of owning a football club? None, they had the finance and employed people with the requisite knowledge and experience of football management and player recruitment etc.

Furthermore, it hasn't been Clowes lack of experience of owning Derby that has been the issue, its been the fact that he had to rebuild the club out of administration, with the added restriction of EFL controls on transfers and wages for the first two seasons.

Clowes may well have learned more about running the club, though I suspect his business acumen was fine in any case, but to date I would say its difficult to identify where his judgement has been awry. Yes it is a fact he was a "newbie" owner, though not like some without a knowledge of football even if only a from a fans point of view. But given there are also numerous examples of owners with more experience of owning a football club who haven't achieved what he has in under 3 years, on what evidence do you base your view that his "newbie" status is or has been an issue?

The only people who would criticise Clowes are those fans who have quickly forgotten the base from which he rebuilt the club and who blithely assume that he can just throw money at a problem , whether that be buying players or replacing the manager. Certainly he will have realised that owning a football club like Derby is how to make a small fortune, from the large one he invested!!

This has become a slightly daft argument with someone I agree with more often than not and certainly usually on the Election Year thread, however, here goes?

The term you originally objected to wasn’t ‘newbie’ it was ‘rookie’ which, I accept may have more negative connotations.

Beyond that you should have recognised by now that I have the greatest respect for David Clowes.
That doesn’t however mean that I don’t believe he’s made mistakes, indeed I believed at the time, and continue to believe, that his early days replacement of Rosenior by Warne was one such mistake.
Of course there is no way of proving that, although looking at their relative performances since there can be little doubt as to which of those two managers now (less than three years on) looks destined for greater success at a higher level.

You talk about Clowes’ business acumen but you know at least as well as I do that traditional business acumen has little to do with running a football club which, as you acknowledge, has often been described as ‘the fastest way to make a small fortune…out of a large one!’

You cannot have it both ways however. Clowes isn’t in the mega rich league and has to be more hands on than those super rich owners you speak of. He has earned the plaudits and I am full of respect and admiration, but there have also been mistakes that he will have learned from.

As I understand it, he has handed over much of the day to day running of his main business to his brother while he concentrates on the DCFC side of things. To what extent he wishes to return more full time to his original business and pass the club on into responsible but wealthier ownership I’m not sure, but I do feel certain he will have learned an enormous amount about the pitfalls and duplicity of football club ownership over the last three years and my only point is that this learning curve will only be of benefit to us all as he becomes more experienced and less of a ‘newbie’.