If there is a second EU referendum

[AngryRam]

I suggest you read mine and Anag's posts again, we have clearly identified the proven lies which said and how Farage and Johnson have back tracked from statements they are on record as saying before the vote - we are not saying they lied, they did its proven.

Angry you don't seem to understand how a parliamentary democracy works! I said IF a party like UKIP had a major policy to leave the EU if elected and they got elected into government then they would have a mandate and a majority in parliament to carry that forward - thats how 99% of all decisions are made in this country and have been for thousands of years, thats how the decision to go to war in Iraq was made. Oh and last time I looked UKIP had 1 MP, even under a fairer proportional voting system they would not have had more than 8 or 9.

Lastly Anag and I made these arguments and so did others many times prior to the vote, but people believed that voting leave meant £350 million extra would be spent on the NHS ...nuff said.

I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

[swaledale]

I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

I dont know all the reasons for people voting leave but on two key points made by the Leave campaign, the £350 million was a deffo lie, that and the control on immigration were i suspect two key facors.

I said I would find the decision more acceptable if it had been decided by a government with a mandate gained at an election to make the decision, I didnt think and still dont think that a referendum was the right mechanism for the reasons outlined previously.

I have no great faith in politicians but in the absence of a better system of government its the best we can hope for, I have even less faith in the ability of most people including myself to be able make a reasoned decision on such a complex issue through a simple in or out vote.

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=AngryRam;38183103]I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

Except that...what 'Leave' suggested regarding the weekly £350m and immigration has been proved to be untrue and what 'Remain' suggested would happen if we voted to 'Leave' is, minute by minute, coming true...the Markets are predicting a U.K. recession, Standard and Poor have downgraded our credit rating, the pound is at a thirty year low, U.S. and European bank shares had their worst two day fall since Lehman Bros. in 2008, the P.M. has resigned, the opposition is in disarray and we are totally isolated amongst our European neighbours.
Can't imagine that's what you and the Brexiteers wanted - Farage apart - but if you/they did then congratulations...last week's vote looks like undoing all that has been achieved via the years of austerity and sending us back to square one...only this time we'll be on our own.

[AngryRam]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;38183236]

I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

Except that...what 'Leave' suggested regarding the weekly £350m and immigration has been proved to be untrue and what 'Remain' suggested would happen if we voted to 'Leave' is, minute by minute, coming true...the Markets are predicting a U.K. recession, Standard and Poor have downgraded our credit rating, the pound is at a thirty year low, U.S. and European bank shares had their worst two day fall since Lehman Bros. in 2008, the P.M. has resigned, the opposition is in disarray and we are totally isolated amongst our European neighbours.
Can't imagine that's what you and the Brexiteers wanted - Farage apart - but if you/they did then congratulations...last week's vote looks like undoing all that has been achieved via the years of austerity and sending us back to square one...only this time we'll be on our own.

Okay.. But Remain was just talking about the EU as it is today.. I don't give a **** what it is today. When pressed on Turkey all Cameron could sa is hats 30 years away and I won't be anything to do with me.. Well Mr PM, it was important because that was some of us where worried about an expansionist Europe out of control. Massive part of my decision.. That was the legacy I as worried about for my kids. Harder for Leave to predict the future but at least they tackled the issue.. I think everyone expected an initial dip in currency, markets etc.. I certainly purchased some Euros and Dollars pre the vote.. As for an expected recession, that was widely predicted long ago and the reasons were nothing to do with this vote. Markets are always up and down, that is their nature. The problem now is that everything will be down to us leaving.. That will be convenient..
Are we isolated? Not so sure.. Time will tell.
IMO the argument to stay was/should have been easier but the campaign delivered was crap.. We can got to the extremists on either side, nothing that was said would change them... Reman ****ed up the middle ground... What did they do to secure the pensioner vote?
The missed all the signs... Apparently the youth did not vote.. Why..
Those angry at the leave result should look at the political elite who ran their campaign and mucked it up..