OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Swale, sorry I have been away again. But after reading this, may I just point one or two little things out.

You're clinging again, to xenophobic/racist stance for anyone questioning immigration. We're all scared of foreigners etc.

To have that stance, we would be insisting on a Trump Mexico wall, or a reverse of Hitlers Atlantic wall.
I have not seen one thread in here, that wants the draw bridge pulled and for us to live in a bubble because we're scared.

All the Brexiter's woted out, because of unbridled/uncontrolled immigration. An open door policy, in which anyone from within the EU can simply walk in. It costs all of us, in services/housing/education/Medical/job pressures(for the low paid) and many other reasons.
Certain parts of the country have had enough of seeing their communities changed and standards of living lowered.
Now I guess you're an educated man. Have a decent job/home/area of living. Pretty much as most politicians have. It doesn't hit/slap you in the mush on an everyday basis, as it does others.
So please, drop this labelling/badging stance that Gordon Brown was so famously caught out with, as soon as he thought the cameras and microphones were off.

That is the fear that folks had had enough of. Seeing their lives turned on their heads, not simply because Europe decided plonk themselves next door.
I would point out, that whilst you're putting down your fellow "Brits" for not developing. The countries involved here, Poland/Hungary/Romania etc, show far more isolationism and racism than you can dream of.
They are on a collision course with the EU for refusing to join in Merkels mad policy of adopting the middle east and Africa,
The far right is also making itself known, in greater numbers.
Yet the hypocrisy of these nations, who have flooded most of Europe with migrants, is quite frankly laughable.
Basically, "what's your is mine and what's mine is my own".

So if we are so bad, try pointing out the EU farce, of all this.
I'm sure most folks in this thread, do not want an end to immigration. They want control- in numbers/quality/fairness.
That is all and you may not agree to that, but the voting said more than your camp did.

(PS still not the reason I voted out, it was the EUSSR deciding which way this county was going for me) But you knew that.

No your wrong, its your views as posted several times on this thread, which in one post you tried to distance yourself from I am describing as obviously xenophobic, that and the countless untruths and irrelevancies (Viz. 900 Syrians arrested, not EU citizens, not here due to the EU but Assylum seekers which is a different topic and one which leaving the Eu isn't going to change).

Or being ruled by Brussels, which is not the case, yes subject to EU laws but not explaining exactly which EU laws have impacted negatively on you or anyone else for that matter. Claiming the Uk will have no choice over closer EU integration, when we have a veto, are not part of the Euro, do not have open borders as we are not part of the schengen agreement. Claiming that we will be able to stop all those eastern european criminals flooding over here once we leave the EU without explaining how that will be different to now, where if a person has no criminal record or other intelligence on them they will still be able to enter the country. Or just enter illegally as many have from non Eu countries, which we know about but whom the Uk government does not seem able to do much about.

Your also wrong to call it my camp - you do this constantly describing myself and Anag as lovers of Cameron and his cronies, when actually we have stated several times we are not.

I can take your argument apart piece by piece if you really want me to, but I guess it would be like talking to a brick wall. You believe what you want to believe as did many of the German people when Hitler blamed the Jews for that countries troubles.

[swaledale]

Britain's economy booming. August figures show jump in manufacturing output and £ up against the dollar. Quite right macstheman. To say nothing about the German economy going the other way and the French. The BBC4EU still had Remoaners on Jeremy Vine today saying we need another referendum as all this is temporary and a blip. Oh and did you note we won golds in the Olympics despite Brexit.

Except this apparent economic boom is occurring whilst we are still full members of the EU and are therefore still able to benefit from being members! So other than the medium term future, nothing has essentially changed yet.

I don't see how the full economic effect of Brexit can be measured until AFTER we have actually left the EU and the out come of the negotiations are clear? So it will have to be Christmas 2019 at the earliest!

Unless of course those "in the know" envisage that the deal will be access to the single market, subject to free movement of people, services goods and capital, subject to Eu law and regulations and still pay a contribution to EU, mmm now that would be a bitter pill and in my view worse than being a full member!

[Ram59]

Swale, I need to correct you on the issue of not being in the eu, not affecting asylum seekers. ATM, asylum seekers can get eu citizenship anywhere in the eu and thanks to the freedom of movement can then move anywhere.

For example, the terrible accident in Birmingham where 5 Spanish nationals were killed under tonnes of scrap metal. They were all from the Gambia and on the news there were many anxious relatives waiting for news, I suspect they were also Spanish nationals. Also there was a Norwegian national from Somalia convicted of murder. How widespread is this?

We are relying on other countries' integrity when allowing asylum seekers eu citizenship and therefore freedom to settle in Britain.

[macstheman]

It has to be Pedigree

[macstheman]

Anyway off on hols now so be good while I'm away!! Note I go during international break, can't miss the mighty rams

[Trickytreesreds]

No your wrong, its your views as posted several times on this thread, which in one post you tried to distance yourself from I am describing as obviously xenophobic, that and the countless untruths and irrelevancies (Viz. 900 Syrians arrested, not EU citizens, not here due to the EU but Assylum seekers which is a different topic and one which leaving the Eu isn't going to change).

Or being ruled by Brussels, which is not the case, yes subject to EU laws but not explaining exactly which EU laws have impacted negatively on you or anyone else for that matter. Claiming the Uk will have no choice over closer EU integration, when we have a veto, are not part of the Euro, do not have open borders as we are not part of the schengen agreement. Claiming that we will be able to stop all those eastern european criminals flooding over here once we leave the EU without explaining how that will be different to now, where if a person has no criminal record or other intelligence on them they will still be able to enter the country. Or just enter illegally as many have from non Eu countries, which we know about but whom the Uk government does not seem able to do much about.

Your also wrong to call it my camp - you do this constantly describing myself and Anag as lovers of Cameron and his cronies, when actually we have stated several times we are not.

I can take your argument apart piece by piece if you really want me to, but I guess it would be like talking to a brick wall. You believe what you want to believe as did many of the German people when Hitler blamed the Jews for that countries troubles.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I love that last bit Swale. Is this the same Germans, who allowed an establishment to slowly strip away it's democracy and install a regime that became total over lords?
The same establishment that decided to unite Europe under one banner?
Or the same establishment that brain washed the young with propaganda, to accept this new order?

Brilliant.

[ramspride]

Anyway off on hols now so be good while I'm away!! Note I go during international break, can't miss the mighty rams

Hope you're going somewhere nice in the EU Mac! Sorry I meant pleasent. If it was Nice you couldn't wear your burka.

[macstheman]

Car packed and off to..............................wait for it...............................South.........no not South Sea Islands or even Sarfend.............but............South Wales walking the dogs (2 gorgeous boxers)!!! Bye.di.bi

[ramspride]

Car packed and off to..............................wait for it...............................South.........no not South Sea Islands or even Sarfend.............but............South Wales walking the dogs (2 gorgeous boxers)!!! Bye.di.bi

You are going to a foreign country then. I'm off to the Llyn in two weeks with my border collie. Might take the wife as well. Have a good holiday and don't worry about Brexit.

[macstheman]

Look out I'm back, too late to go to match due to wifey (it's a long story!!) so watching second half on box. Had a great hols, boxers loved it. Get your finger out NP and sort them out!!